• Hello Guest, you do not yet have the necessary rights to see the contents of our FAQ articles. Register in our forum, briefly introduce yourself and your Zetor in words and pictures and actively participate in discussions in the forum, then you will automatically receive access to the specialist articles in the FAQ.

news New Zetor Crystal... June 25th

Yup, the crystal is definately up to todays industry standards. 73DB low noise level, airconditioning cab suspension and optionally front axle suspension, all the things you need for long work days. Yet no frills that give breakdowns after 10 years. Its the kind of tractor a private farmer would buy new, and keep 20 years and 12.000hrs.

Just one thing.. the hydraulic levers i dont like. The Proxima seems better, but because of the larger wheel wells there is no room for the mechanism under the cab interior panels perhaps ?

Furthermore i only have praise for both the design and the product presentation. This just has to sell !
 
Yup, the crystal is definately up to todays industry standards. 73DB low noise level, airconditioning cab suspension and optionally front axle suspension, all the things you need for long work days. Yet no frills that give breakdowns after 10 years. Its the kind of tractor a private farmer would buy new, and keep 20 years and 12.000hrs.

Just one thing.. the hydraulic levers i dont like. The Proxima seems better, but because of the larger wheel wells there is no room for the mechanism under the cab interior panels perhaps ?

Furthermore i only have praise for both the design and the product presentation. This just has to sell !
Click to expand...

i love it. but hate the red painted rims. And whats the point of making a good tractor like this and put the stupid old forterra hydraulic levers on it. levers 80 % of drivers dont like and levers that puts customers off buying a forterra. i cant believe how misplaced this feature is.


 
Isn't it, after years and years of research simply a forterra 140 HD with a Deutz 6 cilinder engine? I think it will be a small market. The 140 hd and hsx aren't that many sold off. It will have to compete with second hand New Holland or John Deere tractors. It wil have to be cheap! Its best they market them with lower lease prices than the competeters! Deutz engine is clever choice. But i think i would chose the 4 cilinder Zetor engine. Its good enough en less diesel consumption.
 
I have to say I agree with most of comments here,red rims aren't the end of the world I could live with that it's a nice link to crystals of old and I agree 100% about comments of fendt,it's the little things that make Such a big difference,,how difficult would it be to put in a side panel like that on hd,pop up ur mechanical levers through it grouped with ur elec.lift controls switches etc and HAND TROTTLE,do these people just stick everything in to the cab where it's easiest for them and looks like an after thought and f**k the end user,John Deere case new Holland etc r no better tractors(spare parts for them all) but controls r laid out so much better,if the user is the farmer buying the tractor he wants something comfortable to drive and spend his long days in especially when there will be no major difference in price,it's a shame everything else is almost perfect a 6pot above and below 150HD plenty of options for whatever ur thoughts on 4versus6,to ruin the tractor with something that would almost cost nothing to solve
 
Well Jorgen, arrange that... I'll be happy to spend my summer holiday in Brno to change a lot of details on a tractor in a hidden shed on the Zetor premises, to be tried and tested by us both, before shown to the staff...

How we tested ergonomy in the wheel loader cab we designed, was making a scale 1 to 1 print of the CAN bus screen, stick it to the whiteboard with magnets at the correct height in relation to the office chair, then hold your hand on the imaginary button and keep it there for a minute. If you fatigue by keeping your body in that position for more than a minute whilst in a body stature which allows you to keep an eye on the road ahead, the controls are placed wrong. And customers agreed after working them for 3000hrs ! Designing intuitive controls requires intuition, not thousands of dollars of PhD studies ;)
 
How long they can incrase power for UR3/Forterra axle and transmission. When it was presented 1991 r. - 9540 has 95 KM. Next 11641 in 2000 it was 116 KM, in 2010 Forterra 135 - 130 KM and now 160 KM in Crystal.
 
The 10540 had three gears, the 11641 had 4 gears and the HSX has 5 gears. Because all three versions have different ratio spacings, it is safe to assume that when designing new gears, they took care of the increased torque levels too.The crystal is most likely an overdrive configuration, just like the UR2 160hp 16 speed models. With the current torque levels it should be able to take go up to 181hp with the transmission. Rumor has it that a 180hp prototype has been spotted last year. But the rear axle cant take the axle loads that come with the jobs of a 180hp tractor, just like the 16045-16245. If a heavy rear axle is developed, i think the 180hp will be released.:)

The trick of using different powershift or main gearbox ratios was used by Ford in the TW and by deere in the 40 series: the hi/lo of the 40 and 4240 is underdrive and it has final drives with less reduction. The 44 and 4640 had overdrive powershift and bigger final reduction in the final drives. Put 4240 final drives in a 4640 and it will fly ;)
 
In my opinion there's nothing wrong with gearbox or lever position or its movements,it's just to get used to it compared to all the push button electric systems that r out there,at least it falls to hand,unlike some of the other features like the spool valves or hand throttle which u nearly have to get out of ur seat reaching forwards for,it's the same complaint people had years ago with first 9540's and apart from some aesthetics things r still the same 23-24 yrs later
 
Here an action video of the Crystal in Poland, so you can see the different angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_5YH8PIyv4

The exterior design is flawless, very stylish, constructional elements are integrated into the aesthetics (a wasp waist in the hood to make room for the front wheels at large steering angles) so it can meet up with the big brands in terms of style.

The concept is right, Zetor customers wanted a tractor with a relatively simple powershift tractor with the wide torque band of a six cylinder for 15 years. Most importantly, the noise level is low, the airconditioning works, the wheelbase makes for a stable ride, there is some basic, comprehensible headland automation, and axle and cab suspension is optional.

With the HSX Zetor upgraded it within a year, with center drive 4wd etcetera. Most likely the Crystal will get an update within one or 2 years as well, with a rear axle that can compare to the competition, and an upgraded cab interior with more ergonomically placed hydraulic levers, and the hand throttle on the right hand console as well. The HSX could use this upgrade too, because it also falls behind in cab interior design and ergonomy in the similarly priced NH T6 range.
This interior upgrade would be a good moment to also change the door gas strut geometry.
It should take tractors of around the year 2000 as an example, like the Case MX100-170 or the Deutz-Fahr Agrotron 106-165 (the MX100-170 has a more plain and robust look and feel, which would better suit the Zetor brand image than the fancy colours of the D-F Agrotron)

http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/caseihMaxxumMX100.htm
http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/dfAgrotron106.htm

In fact, they can even take their own Maxterra prototype as an example of what a Crystal cab should look like !

http://fotosen.txt.cz/foto/247577/0/134/zetor-maxterra-165/

Another one to compare to, is the John Deere 5M series, they also have mechanical direct gearlevers, but with a modern intuitive side panel:

http://www.konedata.net/Traktorit/jd5M_09.htm

Those had an EHR three point but a gearlever mounted directly on the gearbox and mechanical controls on an ergonomic instrument panel on the right side. Put such a cab interior, and a 7.5 ton rear axle in the Crystal and it would be exactly what Zetor users have been asking for, for over 15 years.

I would have the guy that designed the Crystal exterior, also have a go in the cab interior. Nothing fancy, mechanical gearstick stays, but external remotes and hand throttle need to be ergonomically placed, as well as the electric switches regrouped in an intuitive fashion.

But for now, Zetor doesnt have to send customers away to the competition, they have created a tractor in which a farmer wants to be seen by others ! No doubt it will get an update within one or two years to make it more appealing to a lot more customers :)
 
More promotional videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2HPnl8PmQE

Sounds like the sounds editor made a mistake and mixed a Forterra 4 cylinder sound in it :D :D

Zetor says the original Crystal outline was designed by Otakar Diblik, an industrial designer who designed many important Czech vehicles.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fcs.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FOtakar_Dibl%25C3%25ADk&edit-text=&act=url

curiously, the right side arm console isnt showed in the brochure... will it be brought up to date before serial production ? :)
 
No, here it is:

http://en.zetor .com/file/126484/zetor-crystal-eng.pdf
 
Thanks for that here's hoping,will we be that lucky,i also saw on a polish website a list price of 68000 for 150 and 74000 for 160 vat inclusive,although my local dealer is suggesting it will be those kind of figures here plus vat at 23% atleast u:(:(
 
For those prices it just wont sell with the current cab interior. If it was 60.000 it would sell with 1990's cab interior, but for 70 to 75.000 they need to bring the cab interior up to date. The rest of the tractor is quite OK but its the first look inside the cab that decides, when the price is the same as competitors.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8XLmN_nEn8

Another video from a Polish agri magazine, featuring the sales manager of Zetor Poland.

My admiration for the hood design, and the overall look with its masculine shape which is contributed by the "hard red" rims, grows every time i look at it, yet my conviction that the cab interior, (and secondly the rear axle) must get an update before this tractor would really attract customers from other brands, grows equally...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQtQTNESURg
 
Apparently this small puff of smoke will not come out of the exhaust during the stage 3b transient yest cycle, or this is the only smoke that comes out during the entire test cycle.

Stage 3a John Deere engines smoked constantly. It took quite a while before the software was updated without performance loss.
 
But there will be an updated Crystal II in the near future. Apparently this winter yet... For sure most of the problems you guys are talking about will be resolved.
 
Is that not typical of zetor the last 10yrs,wait 6 months wait until next spring and it doesn't happen,the model they bring out should have been the one before,I'll give u my own example,happy owner of a 8145,7320,10541,when I was looking for a main workhorse at the time zetors best offering was a 11441,after a lot of head scratching I found a 2 and half yr old JD 6420S wit 900 hrs for 7000 less than new zetor,but if zetor had the HSX or HD on offer at the time would probably never have looked elsewhere
 
I pruned this topic a bit, because we're being way too negative.

Lets stop saying whats wrong, and be constructive by making a list of how it should be done right:

Both the HSX and the Crystal are good tractors in their concept, yet they need a dire update in the cab interior to compete at this price level.

- gas strut: Needs to be positioned so that the door is pushed shut, and passes over a dead point so it changes from pushing the door shut, to pushing the door open, when the door is 10cm open.
-hand throttle: Needs to be on the right arm console
-hydraulic levers need to be integrated and their lever axis must be perpendicular to the imaginary line from the center of the hydraulic lever cluster towards the drivers right hand shoulder
-rear axle must be able to carry the 4 ton K80 ball hitch load at 50kmh. ( http://www.scharmueller.at/uploads/media/Bericht_Profi_-_April_2009.pdf the Scharmuller is tested till 6 ton, but not warranted by any tractor manufacturer. In practice with slurry tankers with injectors behind them, the loaded drawbar weight is even more when loaded, because if the axle was placed for less max drawbar load, the tank would flip back over when its empty and this injector weight is on the back.)

I would say, a cab interior comparable to the Deere 5M series (70-100hp semi-economy line) is what people expect from a Zetor Crystal or Forterra HSX these days, just with the Hitchtronic EHR instead of mechanical hitch, in this power class. (also look closely at how the door strut is positioned: the gas strut is pushing towards the hinge, given the above described effect which greatly improves the entry and exit to the cab: That smooth entry alone, gives a much more refined first impression... Then use hydraulic levers like the Proxima and colour code the levers with the colour code of the quick couplers... These are the details that make for winning or loosing, now Zetor can no longer compete on price alone...

http://www.mascus.com/agriculture/used-tractors/john-deere-5100m/df6rii8r.html

Anything less, makes it unable to compete with a used tractor, anything more makes it too expensive to be sold under the name Zetor, with the current brand perception among consumers. (It took Valtra 15 years to go from being a weird duck in the tractor world, to become a premium brand under Agco.)

Lets take a positive approach, an improvement list what is required to secure Zetors future, instead of bashing whats wrong :)

Just add your things :)
 
http://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/first-drive-the-return-of-zetor -s-crystal-tractor.htm

According to FWI, work is being done on a 2nd generation Crystal, which might get a higher power output than the current 163hp.

Also they rumor a new Maxterra 200-250hp range prototype might get shown on Agrotechnica. As far as i know, the original intention was to introduce the Crystal on Agritechnica, so whether this is a maxterra prototype or a Crystal with DSG transmission, is yet to be seen.
 
Hi all was at the Irish national ploughing championships yesterday and got to sit in the cab of the new crystal,I have to say the tractor was attracting a lot of attention both good and bad,apart from all the issues mention in this forum about cab layout and design faults there's 1 thing that definately needs to happen and that's the cab itself needs to be raised up 100-150mm,from the seat,as it is,u can't c the front right wheel with the exhaust and after treatment unit and the bonnet looks extremely cumbersome,simply raising the seat won't solve the problem as this only leads to ur view being obstructed from cab roof/ventilation,all this of course is just my humble opinion and if I had tractor on demo it might drive differently but that was my first impression
 
First impressions count... Especially when you get potential customers from other brands looking at it.

It was my impression too from the photos, and all they would have to do is make a mudguard with double curves: one curve that follows the Forterra cab frame, and one that follows the big tire underneath. If they are going to use this cab on a 200-250hp range they need 20.8R42 size tires. with those tires under the cab, the whole tractor including this hood is getting in proportion :)

rumors have been about a 180hp prototype being spotted in Brno , so this is most likely the Crystal with an advanced transmission option, the DSG we see glimpses about. That would be about the max hp you put on 540/65R28 and 650/65R38 tires.
 
The zetor road show was in Norway one week ago with the New Crystal 160 and proxima Power 110. Sadly,but i become NOT impressed by the Crystal.
Its just a ordinary Forterra With Deutz 6pot engine. The noise Level was wery good ,but i think the tractor was like driving a hybrid between my old 12145and my 12441.
Its a bit 80`s when 4wd brakes is just a Electric switch swapping in and out the 4wd clutch.
I agree With the last post,the cab must increase minimum 20cm. I could only see a long bonnet... Like a TW35.
I can not understand why zetor not launched the Maxterra range instead of this hybrid.

 
Saw one a while back loads of die hard zetor people there as the day went on it became evident that it was a forterra with crystal sticker on side of bonnet and more like the massey 300 series trying to get more out but really needing a total redesign. Ad blue tank added on diesel tank filling point reverse to allow for bigger exhaust should have looked at the deutz fahr exhaust as they use a big cast elbow before it goes to sheat metal for vertical part.
The rear lift should have moved the assistor cylinders to either under the lift arms or on the the outside as the 40series newholland did. They could have fitted style Dromone hitch and one could remove top link pin with out hitting the chrome of the assistor cylinder .
While in the cab less vertical steps would have been nice have loved if they had a parallel window wiper. While an extra slot for a CB radio should have been installed in roof.
Maybe series two will no doubt come with welcome improvements but how far away is that series.
 
Its a bit 80`s when 4wd brakes is just a Electric switch swapping in and out the 4wd clutch.
Click to expand...

Its still the most reliable solution. disk brakes in a 4wd axle, are in the final drive hubs with 0.8 liter of oil in them, the hubs have no connection to the diff housing like a rigid axle would.

Our experience in wheel loader axles, with 15 liters of oil in them, is that in heavy operation the oil can boil so hot that it dissolves plastic bearing cages of the final drive satelite gears. With 0.8 liter in the hub of a tractor front axle, individual hub brakes would be nothing but trouble. Engaging 4wd is a bit crude, but extremely effective and reliable. :)

By the way, how is your 12441, does it have any turbo lag like the 11441, and does it have an air/air intercooler ?

I am looking for a way to make a few local 11441 owners statisfied with their tractors, as most of them want to change them for a 90's six pot, like Fendt 612 or Case MX150 because of the turbo lag, bumpyness and crude interior of the 11441...

(yes, the interior that they planted right over into the Crystal.. :p )


 

Similar threads

Joachim
  • Article
news New process for coating tractor bodies from ZETOR
Replies
12
Views
578
diyfarmer
diyfarmer
Renze
  • Article
news New Zetor importer for Denmark and Norway!
Replies
1
Views
911
Joachim
Joachim
Joachim
  • Article
news ZETOR - NEW SERIES videoteaser
Replies
2
Views
1K
moliner
moliner
Joachim
  • Article
news NEW ZETOR - Coming soon!
Replies
0
Views
835
Joachim
Joachim
Joachim
  • Article
news Hard times for Zetor?
Replies
3
Views
2K
Joachim
Joachim

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top Bottom