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news New Zetor Crystal... June 25th
- Thread starter Renze
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Messages
- 4,021
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
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- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
Apparently this small puff of smoke will not come out of the exhaust during the stage 3b transient yest cycle, or this is the only smoke that comes out during the entire test cycle.
Stage 3a John Deere engines smoked constantly. It took quite a while before the software was updated without performance loss.
Stage 3a John Deere engines smoked constantly. It took quite a while before the software was updated without performance loss.
Is that not typical of zetor the last 10yrs,wait 6 months wait until next spring and it doesn't happen,the model they bring out should have been the one before,I'll give u my own example,happy owner of a 8145,7320,10541,when I was looking for a main workhorse at the time zetors best offering was a 11441,after a lot of head scratching I found a 2 and half yr old JD 6420S wit 900 hrs for 7000 less than new zetor,but if zetor had the HSX or HD on offer at the time would probably never have looked elsewhere
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Messages
- 4,021
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
- First name
- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
I pruned this topic a bit, because we're being way too negative.
Lets stop saying whats wrong, and be constructive by making a list of how it should be done right:
Both the HSX and the Crystal are good tractors in their concept, yet they need a dire update in the cab interior to compete at this price level.
- gas strut: Needs to be positioned so that the door is pushed shut, and passes over a dead point so it changes from pushing the door shut, to pushing the door open, when the door is 10cm open.
-hand throttle: Needs to be on the right arm console
-hydraulic levers need to be integrated and their lever axis must be perpendicular to the imaginary line from the center of the hydraulic lever cluster towards the drivers right hand shoulder
-rear axle must be able to carry the 4 ton K80 ball hitch load at 50kmh. ( http://www.scharmueller.at/uploads/media/Bericht_Profi_-_April_2009.pdf the Scharmuller is tested till 6 ton, but not warranted by any tractor manufacturer. In practice with slurry tankers with injectors behind them, the loaded drawbar weight is even more when loaded, because if the axle was placed for less max drawbar load, the tank would flip back over when its empty and this injector weight is on the back.)
I would say, a cab interior comparable to the Deere 5M series (70-100hp semi-economy line) is what people expect from a Zetor Crystal or Forterra HSX these days, just with the Hitchtronic EHR instead of mechanical hitch, in this power class. (also look closely at how the door strut is positioned: the gas strut is pushing towards the hinge, given the above described effect which greatly improves the entry and exit to the cab: That smooth entry alone, gives a much more refined first impression... Then use hydraulic levers like the Proxima and colour code the levers with the colour code of the quick couplers... These are the details that make for winning or loosing, now Zetor can no longer compete on price alone...
http://www.mascus.com/agriculture/used-tractors/john-deere-5100m/df6rii8r.html
Anything less, makes it unable to compete with a used tractor, anything more makes it too expensive to be sold under the name Zetor, with the current brand perception among consumers. (It took Valtra 15 years to go from being a weird duck in the tractor world, to become a premium brand under Agco.)
Lets take a positive approach, an improvement list what is required to secure Zetors future, instead of bashing whats wrong
Just add your things
Lets stop saying whats wrong, and be constructive by making a list of how it should be done right:
Both the HSX and the Crystal are good tractors in their concept, yet they need a dire update in the cab interior to compete at this price level.
- gas strut: Needs to be positioned so that the door is pushed shut, and passes over a dead point so it changes from pushing the door shut, to pushing the door open, when the door is 10cm open.
-hand throttle: Needs to be on the right arm console
-hydraulic levers need to be integrated and their lever axis must be perpendicular to the imaginary line from the center of the hydraulic lever cluster towards the drivers right hand shoulder
-rear axle must be able to carry the 4 ton K80 ball hitch load at 50kmh. ( http://www.scharmueller.at/uploads/media/Bericht_Profi_-_April_2009.pdf the Scharmuller is tested till 6 ton, but not warranted by any tractor manufacturer. In practice with slurry tankers with injectors behind them, the loaded drawbar weight is even more when loaded, because if the axle was placed for less max drawbar load, the tank would flip back over when its empty and this injector weight is on the back.)
I would say, a cab interior comparable to the Deere 5M series (70-100hp semi-economy line) is what people expect from a Zetor Crystal or Forterra HSX these days, just with the Hitchtronic EHR instead of mechanical hitch, in this power class. (also look closely at how the door strut is positioned: the gas strut is pushing towards the hinge, given the above described effect which greatly improves the entry and exit to the cab: That smooth entry alone, gives a much more refined first impression... Then use hydraulic levers like the Proxima and colour code the levers with the colour code of the quick couplers... These are the details that make for winning or loosing, now Zetor can no longer compete on price alone...
http://www.mascus.com/agriculture/used-tractors/john-deere-5100m/df6rii8r.html
Anything less, makes it unable to compete with a used tractor, anything more makes it too expensive to be sold under the name Zetor, with the current brand perception among consumers. (It took Valtra 15 years to go from being a weird duck in the tractor world, to become a premium brand under Agco.)
Lets take a positive approach, an improvement list what is required to secure Zetors future, instead of bashing whats wrong
Just add your things
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Messages
- 4,021
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
- First name
- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
http://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/first-drive-the-return-of-zetor -s-crystal-tractor.htm
According to FWI, work is being done on a 2nd generation Crystal, which might get a higher power output than the current 163hp.
Also they rumor a new Maxterra 200-250hp range prototype might get shown on Agrotechnica. As far as i know, the original intention was to introduce the Crystal on Agritechnica, so whether this is a maxterra prototype or a Crystal with DSG transmission, is yet to be seen.
According to FWI, work is being done on a 2nd generation Crystal, which might get a higher power output than the current 163hp.
Also they rumor a new Maxterra 200-250hp range prototype might get shown on Agrotechnica. As far as i know, the original intention was to introduce the Crystal on Agritechnica, so whether this is a maxterra prototype or a Crystal with DSG transmission, is yet to be seen.
Hi all was at the Irish national ploughing championships yesterday and got to sit in the cab of the new crystal,I have to say the tractor was attracting a lot of attention both good and bad,apart from all the issues mention in this forum about cab layout and design faults there's 1 thing that definately needs to happen and that's the cab itself needs to be raised up 100-150mm,from the seat,as it is,u can't c the front right wheel with the exhaust and after treatment unit and the bonnet looks extremely cumbersome,simply raising the seat won't solve the problem as this only leads to ur view being obstructed from cab roof/ventilation,all this of course is just my humble opinion and if I had tractor on demo it might drive differently but that was my first impression
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Messages
- 4,021
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
- First name
- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
First impressions count... Especially when you get potential customers from other brands looking at it.
It was my impression too from the photos, and all they would have to do is make a mudguard with double curves: one curve that follows the Forterra cab frame, and one that follows the big tire underneath. If they are going to use this cab on a 200-250hp range they need 20.8R42 size tires. with those tires under the cab, the whole tractor including this hood is getting in proportion
rumors have been about a 180hp prototype being spotted in Brno, so this is most likely the Crystal with an advanced transmission option, the DSG we see glimpses about. That would be about the max hp you put on 540/65R28 and 650/65R38 tires.
It was my impression too from the photos, and all they would have to do is make a mudguard with double curves: one curve that follows the Forterra cab frame, and one that follows the big tire underneath. If they are going to use this cab on a 200-250hp range they need 20.8R42 size tires. with those tires under the cab, the whole tractor including this hood is getting in proportion
rumors have been about a 180hp prototype being spotted in Brno, so this is most likely the Crystal with an advanced transmission option, the DSG we see glimpses about. That would be about the max hp you put on 540/65R28 and 650/65R38 tires.
The zetor road show was in Norway one week ago with the New Crystal 160 and proxima Power 110. Sadly,but i become NOT impressed by the Crystal.
Its just a ordinary Forterra With Deutz 6pot engine. The noise Level was wery good ,but i think the tractor was like driving a hybrid between my old 12145and my 12441.
Its a bit 80`s when 4wd brakes is just a Electric switch swapping in and out the 4wd clutch.
I agree With the last post,the cab must increase minimum 20cm. I could only see a long bonnet... Like a TW35.
I can not understand why zetor not launched the Maxterra range instead of this hybrid.
Its just a ordinary Forterra With Deutz 6pot engine. The noise Level was wery good ,but i think the tractor was like driving a hybrid between my old 12145and my 12441.
Its a bit 80`s when 4wd brakes is just a Electric switch swapping in and out the 4wd clutch.
I agree With the last post,the cab must increase minimum 20cm. I could only see a long bonnet... Like a TW35.
I can not understand why zetor not launched the Maxterra range instead of this hybrid.
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- Jul 22, 2012
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- international xl
Saw one a while back loads of die hard zetor people there as the day went on it became evident that it was a forterra with crystal sticker on side of bonnet and more like the massey 300 series trying to get more out but really needing a total redesign. Ad blue tank added on diesel tank filling point reverse to allow for bigger exhaust should have looked at the deutz fahr exhaust as they use a big cast elbow before it goes to sheat metal for vertical part.
The rear lift should have moved the assistor cylinders to either under the lift arms or on the the outside as the 40series newholland did. They could have fitted style Dromone hitch and one could remove top link pin with out hitting the chrome of the assistor cylinder .
While in the cab less vertical steps would have been nice have loved if they had a parallel window wiper. While an extra slot for a CB radio should have been installed in roof.
Maybe series two will no doubt come with welcome improvements but how far away is that series.
The rear lift should have moved the assistor cylinders to either under the lift arms or on the the outside as the 40series newholland did. They could have fitted style Dromone hitch and one could remove top link pin with out hitting the chrome of the assistor cylinder .
While in the cab less vertical steps would have been nice have loved if they had a parallel window wiper. While an extra slot for a CB radio should have been installed in roof.
Maybe series two will no doubt come with welcome improvements but how far away is that series.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Messages
- 4,021
- Location
- Laag Zuthem
- First name
- Renze
Machinery:
1976 5718
1978 5718 35kmh: Work in progress
1967 3011
Its still the most reliable solution. disk brakes in a 4wd axle, are in the final drive hubs with 0.8 liter of oil in them, the hubs have no connection to the diff housing like a rigid axle would.
Our experience in wheel loader axles, with 15 liters of oil in them, is that in heavy operation the oil can boil so hot that it dissolves plastic bearing cages of the final drive satelite gears. With 0.8 liter in the hub of a tractor front axle, individual hub brakes would be nothing but trouble. Engaging 4wd is a bit crude, but extremely effective and reliable.
By the way, how is your 12441, does it have any turbo lag like the 11441, and does it have an air/air intercooler ?
I am looking for a way to make a few local 11441 owners statisfied with their tractors, as most of them want to change them for a 90's six pot, like Fendt 612 or Case MX150 because of the turbo lag, bumpyness and crude interior of the 11441...
(yes, the interior that they planted right over into the Crystal..
)
