news New Zetor Forterra 120-171 hp !

On Zeme Zivitelka fair, Ceske Budejovice, CZ, Zetor has announced to introduce a new tractor model with 120-171hp. Zetor North America says it is the new Forterra, available from third quarter of 2024. What is clear is that it has a completely new cab, but we will follow what details will be publicized in the next week.



As can be seen, it has a steel sickle above the mudguard, like the Proxima.



This is because the cabs have been placed higher on Crystal and Forterra to improve operator visibility, which left a bigger gap between tire and mudguard at the back, with the previous cab.

Possibly this allows for more room above the wheels to install the more ergonomic hydraulic control levers of the Proxima in the HSX too.

Other noticeable change is the doors are bigger, the B pillar of the cab is moved roughly 20cm back, and the door hinges are different.

Will this new Forterra have a Deutz TCD 4.1 up to 171hp ? Or will the Forterra be available in both 4 and 6 cylinder like Deutz-Fahr ? We will report as soon as more news comes out...

Because of the current price level of the Forterra, ergonomic or technical flaws are not permissible for Zetor, even at basic spec tractors they require to have their ergonomics (placement and logic of the controls, feel, noise, vibration, harshness) spic and span...

Spotted by Forum member twan hag
This message edited with new information 30-08 9:45pm

 

[Joachim]

Wow, looks real good.
But, when Forterra goes up to 170 HP what is with Crystal?
Du you think, a real Crystal series will come as next? With 180 up to 250 HP?

Last year at German agra in Leipzig, Zetor Germany wispers about a big Zetor with ZF rear end.

I have never understand the Crystal "series" in ther known form. I have ever said a Crystal series with only one model and this gearbox makes no sense with max 170 HP.

Let us see what informations we can find next weeks about this.

 

[Renze]

Wow, looks real good.
But, when Forterra goes up to 170 HP what is with Crystal?
Du you think, a real Crystal series will come as next? With 180 up to 250 HP?

Nobody said this was going to be a Forterra. Maybe this new design will become Forterra (classic and HSX) 120-150hp and the long wheelbase Forterra and Crystal HD will become Crystal. After all, the original Crystal came in 4 and 6 cylinder too...

Then a new range with ZF rear end could be called Super, just like the heavy Zetor of the 1950s.... Zetor extended the trademark registration on "Super" at the same time as they registrated Crystal.

Once Zetor has 140-230hp models with ZF and Deutz TCD 6.1, or 230-280hp with FPT NEF67, its good: Bigger tractors arent sold often, and they would be better off buying the 280-360hp range from Versatile because of the low volume. That would make them a full liner in tractors, and attracting new dealers: Farmers buy their main 200hp tractor with modern advancements and need the brand dealer for service of this technology. And then this dealer gets the rest of their business too. So when you cant offer the farms main tractor, the dealer will loose this customer so the dealer decides to ditch Zetor and aquire another dealership contract. Without the 200hp offering the entire sales channel will degrade and collapse.

I have never understand the Crystal "series" in ther known form. I have ever said a Crystal series with only one model and this gearbox makes no sense with max 170 HP.


Let us see what informations we can find next weeks about this.

I think it was in 2015 when a (now ex) dealer spoke his mind on Zetorworld, a few weeks later he contacted me and asked if i could put in writing what i have allways been saying out loud, because he would get the Dutch importer plus two guys from the factory over for a meeting.i wrote them that in absence of the Maxterra, Zetor just HAD to make a move into six cylinder territory if they wanted to be taken seriously in the market, because they broke their promise so many times, even if it was a stop-gap measure with a 3 speed powershift transmission... Valtra sold the T series up to 190hp with 3 step powershift too, back then...

This dealers son did not take over his fathers dealership, his brother kept the business and reduced it to park and garden, while he started a John Deere sub-dealership with his mate at a new location. Their company took a huge leap in the past years: Its really a shame that Zetor lost succesful people like this for the Zetor organisation, because they had nothing to offer them, than to finish last in every race.

To be honest, i find both the Forterra HD as well as the Crystal a stop-gap measure because a tractor with a 6 ton rear axle is far from heavy duty (the lightest rear end in this size and weight class is the New Holland T6 with a 7.2 ton rear axle, Deere 6R 185 offers 8.5 and MF 6S offers 9 ton. And buyers who want electric hydraulic controls, at least expect a semi powershift like MF Dyna6, JD DirectDrive or New Holland Dynamic Command.

Although, in the American market there certainly is a place for the Crystal with the current 3 speed powershift transmission, although it definately needs an 8 ton rear axle.
In America they use even 171hp tractors as loader tractor, or planting on the plains, long fields with little shifting.

Anyways, i am very curious to see what they have come up with, either way they have kept this quite secret untill now, unlike the Crystal which was spotted months before introduction.

 

[Joachim]

Nobody said this was going to be a Forterra.

Well, 120-172 hp, the sprung Carraro front axle, ... that speaks for me in favor of a major facelift for the Forterra series.
The Forterra (apart from the CL) already has 120 to 147 hp. Maybe a new gearbox + rear axle which allows + 25 hp?
The engine cowling looks 1:1 like that of the current Forterra HSX.

In my opinion, a common platform for only part of the Forterra and the two almost identical Crystal models would make even less sense than the Crystal as a separate series already does.

Then a new range with ZF rear end could be called Super, just like the heavy Zetor of the 1950s.... Zetor extended the trademark registration on "Super" at the same time as they registrated Crystal.

The Cystal "series" already makes little sense as a "series" today, because with the well-known gearbox/rear axle it hardly allows more than 170 hp.
Why do you still need the Crystal if the Forterra had more power (only +17% more) and there was a new "Super" series above the Crystal? Excuse me, Renze, but I just wouldn't see any sense in that - neither in marketing nor in the market.

Once Zetor has 140-230hp models with ZF and Deutz TCD 6.1, or 230-280hp with FPT NEF67, its good: Bigger tractors arent sold often, and they would be better off buying the 280-360hp range from Versatile because of the low volume. That would make them a full liner in tractors, and attracting new dealers: Farmers buy their main 200hp tractor with modern advancements and need the brand dealer for service of this technology. And then this dealer gets the rest of their business too. So when you cant offer the farms main tractor, the dealer will loose this customer so the dealer decides to ditch Zetor and aquire another dealership contract. Without the 200hp offering the entire sales channel will degrade and collapse.

Yes - we agree on that. Zetor needs the 200 hp class to keep its customers and dealers. We've been waiting for this step since Maxterra.
But I'm afraid Zetor, just like with the smallest models, just hesitated for far too long and watched the market being divided among other brands (Kubota, Branson, Iseki, etc.).
Unfortunately, the clocks at Zetor run a little slower...

I think it was in 2015 when a (now ex) dealer spoke his mind on Zetorworld, a few weeks later he contacted me and asked if i could put in writing what i have allways been saying out loud, because he would get the Dutch importer plus two guys from the factory over for a meeting.i wrote them that in absence of the Maxterra, Zetor just HAD to make a move into six cylinder territory if they wanted to be taken seriously in the market, because they broke their promise so many times, even if it was a stop-gap measure with a 3 speed powershift transmission... Valtra sold the T series up to 190hp with 3 step powershift too, back then...

100% agree

To be honest, i find both the Forterra HD as well as the Crystal a stop-gap measure because a tractor with a 6 ton rear axle is far from heavy duty (the lightest rear end in this size and weight class is the New Holland T6 with a 7.2 ton rear axle, Deere 6R 185 offers 8.5 and MF 6S offers 9 ton. And buyers who want electric hydraulic controls, at least expect a semi powershift like MF Dyna6, JD DirectDrive or New Holland Dynamic Command.

That's why I think the new models will be Forterra. That would make the most sense to me.

Anyways, i am very curious to see what they have come up with, either way they have kept this quite secret untill now, unlike the Crystal which was spotted months before introduction.

Yes, well, there have been rumors (at trade fairs) - just nothing concrete. What is currently being introduced looks really good at first glance. Let's hope we won't be disappointed.

On Agroportal24h.cz there was news in 05-2022 about new models that were only referred to as "M2023+" and were supposed to go into testing at the end of 2023. Maybe this is now "M2023+"?
See also: Новые модели сельскохозяйственной техники Zetor - https://mtz-traktor.com/news/zetor-uvelichivaet-obemy-proizvodstva-i-rabotaet-nad-sozdaniem-novyh-modelej/

 

[Joachim]

More Details please... so let us zoom in and photoshop a little bit.

 

[Renze]

In my opinion, a common platform for only part of the Forterra and the two almost identical Crystal models would make even less sense than the Crystal as a separate series already does.

The Cystal "series" already makes little sense as a "series" today, because with the well-known gearbox/rear axle it hardly allows more than 170 hp.
Why do you still need the Crystal if the Forterra had more power (only +17% more) and there was a new "Super" series above the Crystal? Excuse me, Renze, but I just wouldn't see any sense in that - neither in marketing nor in the market.

The gearbox is the same in the Crystal, it does allow 171hp, but the rear axle is severely undersized for the tractor size. Which is a long standing Zetor tradition, with the UR2 the pinion shaft bearing holder broke from the casting and halfshafts broke like matchsticks if you used them for the work a 160hp tractor is expected to do.


Now the UR3 rear axle is of conventional design (pinion cantilevered from the bearings, instead of bearings on both sides of the bearing, requiring space for a bearing between crown wheel and differential cage) but its still the lightest axle rating in the industry...

Anyways, both Forterra HD and Crystal HD dont make sense... a too light rear axle for the chassis size, and a too limited transmission for the fancy hydraulics. The Crystal is still sold with the old styling, so a new Crystal with ZF rear end in 4 and 6 cylinder choices, replacing both the Forterra HD and Crystal HD would make sense: Alike the Deutz Fahr 6C series.

But then, putting the HSX transmission in the CL with a mechanical shuttle shift to unify the remaining Forterra, also makes more sense than keeping a separate transmission..

That's why I think the new models will be Forterra. That would make the most sense to me.

Indeed, but nobody said Forterra...they said new range 120-171hp. Deutz Fahr offers both 4 and 6 cylinder variants in the 6C series. Though other manufacturers name the 4 and 6 cylinder models different series, like MF 6S and 7S.

On Agroportal24h.cz there was news in 05-2022 about new models that were only referred to as "M2023+" and were supposed to go into testing at the end of 2023. Maybe this is now "M2023+"?
See also: Новые модели сельскохозяйственной техники Zetor - https://mtz-traktor.com/news/zetor-uvelichivaet-obemy-proizvodstva-i-rabotaet-nad-sozdaniem-novyh-modelej/

It speaks of negotiations with suppliers. Which could mean anything. With Deutz about engines ? With ZF about transaxles ? Or with Graziano or BorgWarner about friction disks for Zetor built DSG transmissions ?

 

[Renze]

They certainly speak of an entirely new model, not based on existing models, such as the company hasnt produced in 10 years, serial production starting in August.. the HSX came out in 2012 so if they are hinting on a novelty of that magnitude, this is not just a Forterra with new cab, but a Zetor dual clutch, or a ZF CVT transmission...

Nový traktor, obrněnec i sen o indickém trhu. Zetor reaguje na bídný byznys - Seznam Zprávy

Zemědělci se do pořizování nových traktorů nehrnou. Brněnský Zetor přesto přichází na trh po dlouhé době se zcela novým modelem a pracuje i na elektrické verzi. Skupina také pokračuje v přípravě výroby armádního obrněnce Gerlach.

www.seznamzpravy.cz

 

[Renze]

Anyways, if we look at Deutz, MF and New Holland, (i have no idea if Zetor ever looks at the competition, given what they have introduced in the past 10 years?) and what Zetor already has, and what R&D projects they were granted a subsidy for, described what they were developing, they are most likely introducing a Forterra HD with uprated rear axle, the 3 speed powershift as base transmission, and optionally a newly developed DSG transmission: Just like the compact Deutz Fahr 6C range (with Same transmissions)
This with Deutz TCD 4.1 four cylinders, and a market conform wheelbase of around 2.65m, 650/65R38 rears and 540/65R28 front wheels.

Then a future Crystal should have ZF TMT 16 and TMT 20 transmissions, both powershift and CVT, Deutz TCD 6.1 engine, 2.80m wheelbase, 150-210/230hp staying within longevity limits of the Deutz TCD6.1 and up to the power level where the Deutz 6.215, MF 6S.210 and New Holland T7.225 are in this wheelbase class. On 650/65R42 and 540/65R30 tires. Or Zetor could chose to use the 8 ton rear axle they need anyways for the Forterra, with the DSG gearbox slightly uprated, and just like Deere did, an optional ZF CVT built into a Zetor transmission housing. (Which then off course, also becomes available in the Forterra)

Then a future Super series should have an FPT NEF67 engine (which is slightly more expensive than Deutz but lasts longer at high power output) should cover the 3 meter wheelbase class of NH T7.230, MF 8S.205, Deutz 7.230 and higher, covering 230-270hp with only the ZF S-matic. That is: Only when they have rebuilt the sales network and aquire new professional dealers to sell to the type of customers that buys in this power segment, by gaining foothold in the market with the new Crystal...
Off course Zetor can also choose here, to develop a DSG transmission that is interchangeable with the ZF CVT in front of the ZF rear axle, just like Steyr used a ZF rear axle in front of their own CVT. Both John Deere and MF still offer a serious powershift option in this chassis size, so for Zetor i feel they are expected to have a powershift option too...

Above that, a Maxterra (rebadged Versatile 265 up to 365 in Pininfarina design) for large grain farming in Eastern Europe (the original Versatile design is ugly) Zetor has lost the connection to grain farmers in France and Germany, so i dont expect them to sell very large tractors in Western Europe within the next 10 years...

I dont see a CVT 4 cylinder as a big market (if Fendt still sold the 500 turboshift series, dairy farmers wouldnt have bought the 400 vario at all) and those who insist on CVT are large farmers who also insist on the heavier frame 6 cylinder...

Also, Zetor will not gain respect in the market if they sell a red Deutz Fahr 6 series, or a McCormick X7 with red rims: There must be something Zetor in it. A DSG transmission unique to Zetor would definately be enough to make the new model a Zetor, instead of a component assembly.

Anyways, thats my point of view... i am anxiously waiting for more details on this 120-171hp new range

 

[Renze]

Another photo from Instagram: There are two screens suspended in front of the right hand B-pillar and several levers on the right hand console.

 

[Joachim]

Dr. Photoshop was back...

I hope its a little bit better to see.

But we would need a spy on site who would take pictures in the cabin with the door or rear window open.

Another point, by the way, is the Mitas tires. In Germany, these are only reluctantly taken because they have a high level of wear (lugs too narrow, rubber too soft) - currently Zetor Germany probably also assembles the Alliance Agristar II, for example - these are high-speed tires (65 km/h) with wide lugs and with more lugs like Mitas.

When using a front loader, the Mitas on the front axle should be relatively bad, as I said, too much wear.

 

[Renze]

But we would need a spy on site who would take pictures in the cabin with the door or rear window open.

You almost live in Czechia, so go ahead

Another point, by the way, is the Mitas tires. In Germany, these are only reluctantly taken because they have a high level of wear (lugs too narrow, rubber too soft) -

Interesting. Even Claas puts their harvesters on Mitas from the factory... i think Fendt too. Mitas has taken over the Ag tires from Continental.

With wheel loaders, Michelin wore out quite fast on the pavement in Load&carry applications in the harbour, so we put them on Chinese Triangle rubber: very hard and wear resistant if you keep them on 4 bar, lasting twice as long as Michelin. But on the beach on 1.5 bar on loose sand, every other tire make is too stiff, and will run on the sidewalls so that the running surfaces bends up in the middle like a diabolo roller on a potato harvester.... Only Michelin will do, not even Goodyear.

 

[Joachim]

You almost live in Czechia, so go ahead

430 km one way... for me a little bit to much for a photo.

Mitas... same with BKT Agrimax RT 855 - good for light weight tractors, but the wrong tyre for front with front loader on a Zetor 9540 eg. (to much wear) but also the wrong in dimension 420/85 R28 on a Zetor 5011/5211 - here the tractor weight is not enough, the tires rub on the road when cornering, whether 1.6 bar or 0.5 bar. The tunnels are too steep.

But that goes a little bit off topic now.

 

[Joachim]

On latest news , Zetor insiders spoke from new Forterra series (M2023+) and a production start at 3. quarter 2024.
Other sources says august 2024.

So the new series is a 120-171 PS Zetor Forterra series.

Let us see, what a gearbox and rear axle his will have...

 

[timos]

something that stands out to me.

this looks a lot like an isobus plug

 

[Joachim]

Yes, mr. Harman from Zetor says, more fokus on things (electronic) like hat.

Next step have to be a new Crystal series with 160 up to 230 PS - I hope so, since Zetor presents the Maxterra years ago.

And in a conversation with Renze just minutes bevore we also came to the conclusion that the Crystal still has the "old" design and is now under pressure from the new Forterra in terms of performance. This literally calls for a relaunch of the Crystal series with more performance and comfort.

 

[Renze]

something that stands out to me.
View attachment 187
this looks a lot like an isobus plug

If you buy a brand new tractor, it's got to have ISO bus... my mate bought a new selfloading forage wagon, and had to order the optional control terminal for an extra price, because none of his tractors have ISO bus... An expense you dont need when you have a universal ISO terminal on the tractor... And a built in ISO bus controller saves you a lot of hassle changeing the terminal whenever you change implement, and putting the cables into the cab in such a way that your rear window still closes shut..

 

[Renze]

Anyways, my ideal scenario:

- Zetor already replaced their Zetor engine in the Proxima with a Deutz TCD 3.6, which means a decrease in production volume of their engine. In the annual report 2018 they already said that the development of the common rail version of their engine was cancelled (MTZ Minsk/Belarus tractors with the Motorpal CR system were all changed in the field for an inline mechanical pump because the CR system was too unreliable) which means Zetor will not just quit developing CR engines, they will quit developing engines altogether.

So Zetor has to re-orientate on the market: A 171hp four cylinder isnt bought by customers who go flat out everyday, so even at 42hp per liter they will be o.k. with Deutz.

But then, how will Zetor be able to stand out from the competition? Deutz Fahr already offers the combination of Deutz engine and ZF rear end, and Landini/McCormick already offers FPT with ZF.
The only way they can remain a product with enough of their own DNA is by offering the finest DSG transmission there is: close ratio, yet with the ability to skip gears by having a conventional 2 speed powershift in front to increase preselection shift speed and adaptability.

Thats why i hope they continued with the DSG transmission they have been experimenting with for 10 years, in combination with an 8.5 ton capacity rear axle. This 8.5 ton rear axle is more or less the standard in the large 4 cylinder class of 130 to 180hp, as well as the compact 6 cylinder class from 160 to 230hp. (MF, Fendt, Deere) John Deere offers a 7 ton rear axle (86mm) in the 110-140hp 6M and 6R, but the HD chassis size needs more... 8.5 ton (91mm) like the 150-200hp 6M series or 10 ton (100mm) in the 6R 175 and bigger, or 9 ton like the MF 6S and 7S series. (You wonder why they even put money in their new 6 ton rear axle 8 years ago ?!) Then its up to the accountants at Zetor to decide whats cheaper: Develop the 6 ton Forterra axle into a 7 ton for the 120-130-140hp models and an 8.5 ton axle for 150-230hp like Deere does with the 6R, or save the money of this development and sell the 120-140hp models with the 8.5 ton axle for the same sales price like MF does...
Their 2x 12 speed functional prototype of a DSG isnt it because it would require a range shift in the middle of field speeds, but its quite close to whats needed if a third range is added.

Then later they can do like Deere 20 years ago, and build a ZF CVT in front of their rear axle.
Then for the heavier range 220-280hp an FPT engine and a ZF rear end: within this class they cant earn money for the next 10 years on any in-house development and i dont really think this market is important for them right now. But in the 120-230hp market that is of key importance for their brand identity and right of existence (and most of all: the right of existence of their dealers) within the market, they just need an in-house developed main product.
Only then, Zetor can quote assassin John Wick in the Crystal advertisements "People keep asking me if i'm back... And i havent really got an answer. But now, yeah! i'm thinking i'm back !!"

 

[Joachim]

New material for our rumor mill.

A member (Markus, alias "Zetor_By") of our German site www.zetor-forum.de posted this now:

Spoke to Zetor DE in Karpfarm. Next spring the HD comes out with Deutz engine and ZF transmission 4 gears 6 stages up to 170ps. The Hsx remains with Zetor motor Supposedly. Proxima also gets Deutz. Crystal more or less dies. In 2025 a real hammer should come. Allegedly up to 260 hp, detz motor zf gear load sensing isobus etc.... But wait and see what time brings.

Source: News - Neue Zetor Modellreihe "M2023+" mit 120-171 PS gesichtet - https://www.zetor-forum.de/themen/neue-zetor-modellreihe-m2023-mit-120-171-ps-gesichtet.7679/post-65280

So if so, then a new Zetor Forterra HD will come at early next year and the M2023+ later the year as HSX maybe or talk all from the one new series and it is more available in Europe?

A ZF gearbox seems to be te thruth, Deutz motor and hp area as well.

It remains exciting...

 

[Renze]

So, they will sell the HSX with Zetor engine, so at 1/3 of the production volume when Proxima still had a Zetor engine. Off course the cost per unit will go up so it wont be long before they quit that too, or everybody buys a real Deutz Fahr instead of a HD and Zetor realises they can only compete with a component tractor if they drop the price till there is no profit left...

I find it wise to not end Zetor engine production abruptly, because i dont think the market will respond well to a red Deutz Fahr or Crystal Agropoland... This way they can always go back. Or develop their DSG gearbox in combination with that Deutz engine.

I have not seen a single Landini or McCormick with FPT engine and ZF rear end, their market dried up when they stopped using the Case MX rear end... i am afraid Zetor cant sell a component tractor either. The Fendt 600 series was an MWM engine with ZF rear end and front axle too, but they had the fluid clutch as unique selling point, and they had (one of) the best cabs in the industry at that time....

Zetor really has to have their act together if they want to compete with a component tractor...

 

[Joachim]

I see it more like this:
Zetor was available “cheaply” for decades and was of decent quality. But that has changed in the last 10 years. Zetor was unable to keep up with the market, lost dealers and therefore support, and lost customers to competitors because they could provide this support.
I don't think it's financially justifiable to produce your own engines in the long run, Renze, I think that's just too expensive for Zetor, it ties up staff and takes up time that you no longer have in a fast-moving market.

Zetor had proven in the "PROFI test" (Crystal) that they could ultimately be competitive even with a Deutz engine, with sometimes better measured values than Deutz itself had.

The advantage of a combination of Deutz (or another manufacturer) and ZF could be that you could make your development work more efficient and reduce costs. Zetor, as an old hand in the market but also an underdog today, desperately needs the latter in order to survive.
I would welcome it if they would invest the freed up capacity and money in more comfort, better usability and quality. I think they still have a chance on the market.
To be honest, at the end of the day it almost didn't matter to me which engine was in the Fendt or CaseIH - as long as it met the performance expectations and didn't break.
For me as a buyer, the service life, the comfort, the features and yes, the design would be more important than a specific component manufacturer. And all of this, of course, with better support than you currently hear.

The Fendt 600 series was an MWM engine with ZF rear end and front axle too, but they had the fluid clutch as unique selling point, and they had (one of) the best cabs in the industry at that time....

Thats what I mean - you also can with components like ZF or Deutz produce a good tractor.
The big advantage of a Deutz engine and ZF transmission would be that you can have the tractor repaired more easily in another workshop without having to rely on a corresponding Zetor workshop. I think this is a not unimportant point given the current dealer network.


How is Zetor supposed to survive on the market with too small a margin for its own engines?
The only thing that would be conceivable for me is a modular system with 3, 4 and 6 cylinder engines with 3.7, 4.9 and 7.4 liter displacement, for example. to then cover a range from 50 to a maximum of 220 HP. Major, Proxima, Forterra and the “smaller” Crystal could use the kit. For the very smaller models and the larger ones with 220-300 hp, you would probably need a 6-cylinder engine with a displacement of more than 8 liters in order to do without expensive bells and whistles such as bi-turbo.

hmm...
Maybe it would even be advisable to forgo your own gearboxes instead of the engines. As long as you don't have any unique selling points, in my opinion, your own gearboxes make even less sense than your own engines.