New zetor tractors like the old?

[funkinalive]

Hey everyone, new to the forums here. we have had 2 zetor tractors (6911 and 7045) here on our sheep farm in Slovakia which have been fairly faithful throughout there service on our farm, but a few years back we needed a heavier tractor to tackle the harder jobs on the farm. we purchased a claas 557 ares in 2008 for this purpose. from what i know the ares is just a repainted renault tractor, but the components can be found in other tractors. for example the motor is a DPS (deere power systems) the transmission is a 24speed electromechanical shuttle with 4 ranges and 6 powershift stages names "hexashift". the same transmission can be found in MF "dyna-shift" tractors. the front axle i believe is made by carraro. now dont get me wrong We really like this tractor (very comfortable) but it we are used to doing all the maintenance and repairs on our own and i find it a bit silly that to change the oil, our 100page manual tells us to call our authorised dealer. long story short, the maintenance and repaire costs are killing us. at only 1400hrs, the coupling between the motor and transmission trashed itself and when we went to split the tractor, i was surprised to find that there are special bolt heads that fasten the tractor together!! WTH!! thats like buying a house that has a basement but not having the keys to open it. so 1300euro's later (the coupling cost an outrageouse 490euro, the rest was labor) and 2 weeks out of commision (waiting for the parts) and just yesterday we bought a fuel lift pump for 135euro!!! (we changed this ourselves thankfully). factoring in the special oils that the machine requires each year, then running the numbers, we are starting to second guess our decision back in 2008.

We dont mind an expensive tractor to begin with, but if its expensive to keep running, then its not really a cost effective solution. Loking back at our old zetors, we just loved the fact that they were very practical and economical to run. not saying that they didnt have their share of problems, but when i can change, for example, the hydraulic pump for around 100euro, or the complete clutch for about 400euro, and do the jobs myself, we just feel better about the whole investment.

Finally to my question... we are considering selling the claas and picking up an equivalent zetor. the new forterras look like a good machine but we are also considering the proxima plus or power units. are these units built like their predecessors? or are they a mishmash of expensive parts like all the "new" tractors out there? the main job of our "heavy" tractor will be plowing, discing, seeding, cutting hay, baling and manure spreading. all on implements designed for tractors around 100hp. are the parts still relatively cheap (at least compared to the competition)? are the internals all locked up with special bolts and whatnot?

Sorry for the long post but i kinda got carried away, and sorry if these questions have been answered before but the search function runs into an error for me probobly due to my browser (firefox)

 

[forterra9641]

the claas tractors are a disaster on wheels, i know of one that the 4wd dropbox seised up when driving and the prop shaft came flying and hit the car in the opposite lane..... lucky that there where no passangers in that car..... it went straigth trough the front window and stopped int the passenger seat. Zetors where and still are a good reliable work horse, wery comfortable and strong, easy to maintain ad do repairs on. not that you need meany of those i have two forterras and im wery pleased with them get rid of the claas and go ZETOR again

 

[funkinalive]

the claas tractors are a disaster on wheels, i know of one that the 4wd dropbox seised up when driving and the prop shaft came flying and hit the car in the opposite lane..... lucky that there where no passangers in that car..... it went straigth trough the front window and stopped int the passenger seat. Zetors where and still are a good reliable work horse, wery comfortable and strong, easy to maintain ad do repairs on. not that you need meany of those i have two forterras and im wery pleased with them get rid of the claas and go ZETOR again

forterra, do you mind me asking how many hours you have on your forterras? we are going to go look at one next week, and do you have any experience with the proximas?

 

[forterra9641]

11441 has 2700 hours
and the 135 has 470 just bought it this year. proxima i had one proxima power last summer while i had my 11441 at the shop fixing a problem with the engine, the problem was caused by me and was not a result of poor quality. also a a buddy of mine has a 7441 proxima and its trouble free i think ith has about 2000 hours on it now.
The proxima power i borrowed from the dealer was a wery nice tractor to drive, powerful engine smooth gearbox all in all a nice tractor, but the proximas are a bit to lite for my kind of work, i need the heavyer forterra to get the job done

 

[funkinalive]

that 11441 looks to be a good machine and something that we would be looking for as well. well, gonna have a talk with the old man tommarow and see what were gonna do. im interested whether your new forterra is going to be as well built as your 11441. new ones (fully equipped) in our area are on sale now for about 42000euro

 

[forterra9641]

that 11441 looks to be a good machine and something that we would be looking for as well. well, gonna have a talk with the old man tommarow and see what were gonna do. im interested whether your new forterra is going to be as well built as your 11441. new ones (fully equipped) in our area are on sale now for about 42000euro

the 11441 has one issue with it. because of the emmision standards the engine is a bit lazy beneath 1500 rpm it doesent have much low end torque, but its no problem if you adapt your driving to it. the new forterra is just as well built and the engine is amazing it pulls all the way down to 1200 rpm has amazing low end torque, also it has a fuel efficiency 10 % lower than any competitor in its class, i still havent got it to use over ten liter pr hour yet

 

[funkinalive]

that 11441 looks to be a good machine and something that we would be looking for as well. well, gonna have a talk with the old man tommarow and see what were gonna do. im interested whether your new forterra is going to be as well built as your 11441. new ones (fully equipped) in our area are on sale now for about 42000euro

the 11441 has one issue with it. because of the emmision standards the engine is a bit lazy beneath 1500 rpm it doesent have much low end torque, but its no problem if you adapt your driving to it. the new forterra is just as well built and the engine is amazing it pulls all the way down to 1200 rpm has amazing low end torque, also it has a fuel efficiency 10 % lower than any competitor in its class, i still havent got it to use over ten liter pr hour yet

thats very impressive, in heavy operations our claas uses about 17-20litres/hectar so id say about 12-14litres/hour (its a very thirsty tractor, probobly due to the boost) but it has very good power all the way through its rpm, does your 135 have a reverser? i really actually prefer mechanical reversers opposed to electromechanical

 

[Renze]

Funkinalive, the Forterra still has the mechanical reverser. Drawback is that the 4th speed is blocked in reverse, so when ploughing in low range 4, you must change two gear levers when changeing direction at the headland.

Forterras used to shift really stiff, but there is a modification, a little trick that makes it smoother. Perhaps the factory now does this in the factory already.

The Forterra HSX has an extra main gear, automatic powershift and shuttle reverser. Both the current Forterra and the new Forterra HSX have the new 16 valve engine, of which i only hear praise: both on lugging power and fuel economy.

When buying a new tractor for 100hp implements, i would buy 120hp because maybe next year you buy a new plough, and then it would be better to buy a little bigger plough, to invest towards the future.

Your 557 according to Google is about 105hp and 4800kg. thats comparable to a Forterra, just the wheelbase is shorter. The Proxima is a very capable tractor too, but the wheelbase is about 20cm shorter than your Claas and it weighs 1000kg less. If you do PTO work only, the Proxima is a good choice because you save fuel when you dont carry all that weight around, but if you use heavy 3pt implements or pull heavy tillage equipment, you're going to need the weight and stability of the Forterra.

 

[diy_farmer]

i bought my 10641 brand new in 2008,so have 5 seasons silage done,i don`t do tillage work,but do silage with a claas round baler and a krone silage wagon.And i can`t fault the tractor in any way bar services the only thing i put into this tractor was one tail light bulb.

i came from a string of crystals with weird brakes and every year would get sick it was great to find such a super tractor.

the claas dearler where the baler came from is always trying to get me into a new claas tractor but they have no chance.

 

[forterra9641]

the new forterras shift just as easy as the proxima now they have fixed the problem with stiff gearlevers renze

 

[funkinalive]

Thanks RENZ and diy, i appreciate the information.

@RENZ: in total agreement with the implements: i also believe that the tractor should exceed their required hp rating but i should have used other words: our implements do not require 100hp, but they couple well with a 100hp tractor. the claas is used for most of the work on the farm, such as cutting, baling, plowing, discing, mulching, etc and some minor hauling at low speed over hilly terrain. wondering if the forterra is better option for hilly terrain than the proxima? i can see how a non reversible 4th gear can be a hastle at headlands,going with the electromechanical shuttle is a better option. quite interested in the proxima power units, but like the mechanical reversers (is the proxima also equipped with non reversible higher gears?)

@diy i hear ya about the dealer pressure, but unlike you we gave in to all the "new tractor" hype . the claas is a good comfortable machine that gets the job done well. its just all the regular maintenance that used to be done by the farmer, now has to be done by the dealer. for example, the coupling between the motor and transmission went on our tractor, obviously we inquired why this happened at only 1300hrs. they responded by asking, when was the transmission last calibrated. we know nothing about calibrating transmission so we said not since the last warranty related service. they said that this was the cause of the problem, and that it was necessary every 500hrs to calibrate. we responded by asking what we need to do to calibrate the transmission ourselves. they said that only they can calibrate for 120euro plus travel (200eur+120euro=320euro). now after the repair they called us with the bill and i asked them if they calibrated or not, and they said that calibration would be extra!!! why the heck would you change a part and not address the root problem!! now we are not the complaining type, but we don't like having little control over the well being of our equipment!
this is just one instant, actually, in all cases the dealer always wanted to send his boys out to "take a look at the tractor" for even the most minor tasks. again it wouldnt be an issue if they didnt charge such a premium for parts and services.

sorry for the rant gonna call my father tomorrow and have a chat with him

 

[Renze]

The Proxima Plus has a 16 speed gearbox: 16 forward, 16 reverse, by high and low range, 4 gears and two powershift steps. It has a mechanical shuttle.

The Prox Power has the same transmission just with 3 powershift like the Forterra, and a electrohydraulic shuttle. If it is out of calibration it goes into limp mode, if you know the key combination you can start the auto calibration yourself.
The new Forterra HSX is more comparable to your current Claas in weight, power and features.

I dont know what works better on hills, we dont have any in the Netherlands. Just mole heaps But a Proxima weighs less, and would therefor use less fuel when mowing on hills because it climbs with less dead weight. But if you plough 4 furrows on hills, you might need the Forterra weight and wheelbase to get the power to the ground.

 

[funkinalive]

i actually really like the proxima plus models, the mechanical reverser is something i actually would prefer, but haveing no powershift ranges is gonna be awkward for tillage or heavier work. as for claibration, i have a feeling that our claas dealer would rather not tell us the code or proceadure as it takes potential money away from his pocket, even if we ask kindly. the forterras longer wheelbase may be of better use for traction and tilling. we only pull 3 bottom plow due to the inclines and try not to overload the tractor. but we also do a lot of grass work in the summer and the nimbleness of the proxima would be a big plus. im getting ahead of myself though, gonna talk to my dad tommarow and figure what he thinks

 

[Renze]

We used to pull a 3x16" Huard plough with the 5245 with little trouble on sand soil. Lifting that heavy reversible was a bit of a struggle.

The Prox Plus doesnt have any computers. purely mechanical, even the 3pt hitch. I dont know how steep your hills are, but it should pull the 3 furrow ok on hills in average soil.

 

[funkinalive]

Well, just got off the phone after a long chat with my dad. the milk season is over and we took quite a loss this year (had to let go of one of our employees ) anyway, we got to talking about the tractor and he would have rather bought the forterra back in 08 if he'd known what he was getting into with the claas, but his logic says that we've already fixed the darn thing so we might as well will give it another chance and work it for the next season and see how it holds up. on the other hand we got to talking about selling our 6911 and 7045 and buying a 80-85hp proxima to replace the two. i think it would be kind of a shame as those machines have been good to us throughout the years, but again we'll have to see what the future brings for our farm. Thanks for everyones input.

Mike

 

[Renze]

Too bad you're in Slovakia, i'd love to buy your 7045...

But i guess your dad is right, you have a lot of depreciation if you trade your 2008 Claas with 1500 hours... The first hours represent the biggest write-off. You might write off 20.000 euro in 4 years if you sell now. If you calculate that per operating hour, its cheaper to keep using it.

 

[per_ola]

Renze wrote:Forterras used to shift really stiff, but there is a modification, a little trick that makes it smoother

Can you tell me the trick Renze? My 12441 is wery stiff to shift,

 

[Renze]

Dealer once told me: there is some sort of half moon shaped part underneath the gear stick, which has a shallow radius on one end and a steep one on the other. They put this in the other way around. It is ten years ago they told me this, when we were test driving one of the first 11441's in Holland, so i cant remember it all exactly: They hadnt done this to the brand new 11441 yet, and we compared it to the old 8641 demo tractor with 400hrs on it, which shifted very good actually.

I guess this half moon shaped thingy is something like the bolts with the spring loaded balls in them, on the UR1 ???

Oh, and my 3011 i sometimes could not get out low range: I solved this by putting a thin washer under this bolt with spring loaded ball, so the arresting action isnt as strong

 

[ixer0]

Hi,

There's a couple of things you can try to help it shift easier.
Under the plastic cover there is a round plate which has to slide smoothly. If this gets dirty it will make shifting very stiff. You can alternatively cut the plate off and throw it away ! It will also help if you clean the sliding parts, then pack the top plastic cover up with some washers on each little bolt so it doesn't press so hard on the plate.
Mike

 

[forterra9641]

yes get rid of that plate. dealer did that on my 11441 and it now shifts wery good