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question Should I buy the new Zetor Forterra

E

european

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european
Hello,

I will go straight to business with my first forum post.
I need a new tractor with the following specs:
  • PTO 500/750/1000
  • around 100-120 HP, no nonsense transmission
  • being able to regularly change filters, engine and transmission oil on my own (without a service center)

Similarly priced competition includes MF5711 Global (no DPF), Claas Arion 420 CIS, Steyr Kompakt (New Holland) and Same-Deutz-Fahr tractors.

My main concern with Zetor is the height of the tractor, since I work on steep terrain. And something not only related to Zetor is the new "low emissions engine technology". Is the removal of EGR as simple as plugging out two wires, and removal of DPF as simple as replacing it with a piece of bent pipe. And is it all possible without tampering with the electronics and computer of the tractor?

P.S. Every other new tractor from the "west" seems to require owners to pay a "technician" to mess with their computer even for things as simple as a change of transmission oil. How did we get to this point...
 
If you buy a brand new tractor, it will need a mechanic to service it for 2 years for the warranty anyway. Our family have Zetors since the 70's and we would work some very steep land never had a bother. I bought a brand new Forterra 10641 in 2008, never put a spanner to it apart from servicing after the warranty was over.

I changed to a new HSX140 in 2017 and I can't say anything bad about it. I seen people talking about the DPF filter removal but I haven't any problems once she is put to work when it's started and not left ticking over too long cold.

Even thought the HSX is more technical than my old 10641 all service work can be carried out on it without need a computer.
 
I seen people talking about the DPF filter removal but I haven't any problems once she is put to work when it's started and not left ticking over too long cold.
Click to expand...

I think it would be best to negotiate the EGR and DPF removal with the dealer.
If the dealer has no intentions of removing them, I could do it myself and reconnect EGR wires, and return the DPF a day before the technicians come to service my tractor (until warranty expires).

Even thought the HSX is more technical than my old 10641 all service work can be carried out on it without need a computer.
Click to expand...

I am not quite sure about the newest models... Their new dashboards look quite complicated and I'm not so sure that the EGR and DPF could be removed so easily.
If removal of EGR and DPF won't harm the tractor; if it's as simple as removing wires from EGR and removing DPF; if it requires no computing intervention; then I don't see anything better on the market.


https://i.imgur.com/6bRNSFy.jpg

P.S. Here are the latest Operator's manuals for the 2018 Forterra's (if anyone is curious) http://www.cals.cz/zetorservice/files/1/Forterrra_CL.htm
 
I wouldn't be going at removing the dpf and fitting it again if the tractor was still in warranty, the new dash is only an update of my one but all makes of tractors have fancy dashboards now anyway.
 

You would be looking at something like an Armatrac so, 540/750/1000 rpm 115hp, with hardly any electrics and no DPF or Adblue
 
I wouldn't be going at removing the dpf and fitting it again if the tractor was still in warranty, the new dash is only an update of my one but all makes of tractors have fancy dashboards now anyway.
Click to expand...

I forgot that the new Forterra has everything (EGR + DPF + SCR/DEF/AdBlue) so I would need to additionally remove the SCR (Exhaust), because if there's no DPF in front of it, it will get clogged with soot pretty quickly.

So in the end there's just one elegant solution, use the tractor AS IS; change oils and filters often. Let's just hope that the parts for engine rebuild stay dirt cheap.

P.S. more info on diesel emissions control
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzRR8BTVsyw
 
I not sure why you want to buy a new tractor and just remove everything that is there to improve emissions output, On a new tractor that's why they are there. All makes of new tractors have adblue and partial filters now be it Same/Deutz, Massey or JD.
 
We have other makes of tractors on the farm and I can say that the Zetor is just as fine a machine to drive as our Case IH of Deutz or Same. They all work well when you keep them serviced and happy.
 

It's difficult to get correct information, so I apologize if I am asking weird questions.
For instance Same/Deutz sends a technician every 500 hours to perform a forced regeneration of the DPF.

If we consider that you also need a service center to replace oil and filters (because the service requires a computer), than the total cost of ownership in let's say 10-20 years of a Same/Deutz tractor are much higher than what Zetor would cost to maintain.


 
We have a Same from new never had anyone come to service once it was out of warranty, our Deutz was only looked at when the motherboard failed.
 

I know some car engines have no sump bung, so oil has to be sucked out of the block.
 
What about the elephant in the room, the new emissions technology MF 5711 Global? It looks solid, but the low price of 50k makes me think it's a fishy deal (for a new technology).

It uses only an exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system, high pressure common rail (HPCR) and a diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC) that is designed to last for the life of the tractor.
For what I'm concerned it could be using new emissions technology that is worse than what everyone else offers (EGR + DPF + SCR/DEF/AdBlue).

P.S. Source on how exactly it reduces emissions Massey Ferguson: Trouble-Free Emissions - AGCO FarmLife - https://myfarmlife.com/equipment/massey-ferguson-trouble-free-emissions/
 
I think you need information from someone more expert than me now, I can't tell you about other tractor makes apart from Zetor, but the only new tractor you will get in Ireland for 50 thousand Euro would be a Tumosan or a Hattat.
 
I can't really find anything about that new emission tech, and my local MF dealer knows less about it than I do.

P.S. 50k, tax included
 
You shouldn't have to worry about emissions level if your looking at buying a new Massey. I would be more concentrating on what the gears are like, the controls, what it drives like and things like that, same as if you were new a car, never even think of the co2.
 
A new Massey for 50k sounds too good, Its not in Ireland anyway but I don't know what language it is written in but whatever it is if you can read it you have very good English too.
 
FYI. if you keep talking about Massey tractors on here, you'll be getting yourself in trouble with the moderator
 
FYI. if you keep talking about Massey tractors on here, you'll be getting yourself in trouble with the moderator
Click to expand...

The MF is out of the picture because it has 2 PTO speeds. For 3 PTO speeds one must opt for the Dyna4 transmission.

Back to Forterra. Will try to visit a dealer to see one in person.
 
A Zetor Forterra HSX has 540/540E and 1000/1000E PTO speeds but no 750, but economy PTO is a great job.
 
Isnt MF 5711 comparable to a Proxima ?
 
Isnt MF 5711 comparable to a Proxima ?
Click to expand...

Yes it is. I went to see the new MF 5711 in person and I have to say that I am not impressed. The tag says it was made in France, but the assembly was very sloppy. As if it was assembled in Turkey (If anyone wants to know more please PM me).

Recently I got interested in Claas Arion 420 (slightly over 50k), has Dyna4, FPT engine and super comfy Claas cab. I also went to see it in person and it looked superior to the MF. I still plan to visit Zetor, but the dealer that has it in stock is a bit further away from me.

P.S.
Updates on TIER 4 Final (information collected from talking to dealers):
  • Dealers (secretly) remove DPF's and other emission stuff after waranty (on all new tractors)
  • Some manufacturers had serious engine issues before the new SCR (DEF/AdBlue) engines came out
  • Zetor with it's removable DPF, and highest torque looks to have the best engine (at least on paper)

 
MF 5711 is assembled in french factory Beauvais but parts are made in AGCO plant in Changzhou China. It is the same as new Valtra A.
 
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