I have a Zetor 8145 with an oil sump full of diesel. Remarkably, the tractor runs OK (at least it did up until I discovered what had happened). It took about one hour to fill the sump with approx 15 litres of diesel. After I emptied it out and put in new oil, I drove the tractor home -- about 15 minutes. When I checked the oil, there was about 10 litres of diesel in the sump. The tractor starts no trouble and runs well. Any ideas????
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Sump full of diesel
- Thread starter bill005
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- Dave P
The injector pump on your tractor is lubricated with oil circulated through it from the engine, so it is most probable that the diesel in the sump is coming from the injector pump unit. The first thing to check is the lift pump, thats the pump you use for priming the system and which has also a small piston pump operating off a cam in the injector pump.There is no fix for this pump if it leaks, except by taking out the piston and putting it in the other way around which works occasionally for a while. Replacement pumps are not expensive ( at least in UK ), and you don't have to buy the manual part if you don't want to. If you have a car electric pump you could try replacing it altogether. Provided the filters have been changed regularly it is unlikely that the leak is in the injector pump itself, but its possible.
I can't think of any other way that volume of fuel could end up in the sump that quickly
I can't think of any other way that volume of fuel could end up in the sump that quickly
Thanks, Dave P. Actually, my tractor is 200kms away at the moment and I will not be able to get to it until the weekend. I did have a look at the injector pump and lift pump but shuddered when i contemplated getting them off. Can the lift pump be taken off the injector pump while the injector pump is still attached to the tractor? It seems that getting at the nut at the back is almost impossible. If I remove the injector pump, is there any difficulty setting it up again?
Dave - On the 8011, the diesel fuel pump's lubricating oil is self contained i.e. it is not lubricated with oil circulated through it from the engine. Is it definitely different on the 8045?
The piston pump is an obvious candidate.
A hole in the piston is another but I doubt it would accumulate that much diesel is such a time.
The piston pump is an obvious candidate.
A hole in the piston is another but I doubt it would accumulate that much diesel is such a time.
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Tom, the 8145 has the balanced engine with the lubricated pump.
Bill, I heated up a 9mm ring spanner and bent the end to a right angle to get at that back bolt:
<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r13/dpeters_01/?action=view¤t=crystalfuelpumpspanner.jpg" target="_blank">
Hope this helps, Dave
Bill, I heated up a 9mm ring spanner and bent the end to a right angle to get at that back bolt:
<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r13/dpeters_01/?action=view¤t=crystalfuelpumpspanner.jpg" target="_blank">
Hope this helps, Dave
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I've got a bigger one than that thats bent to undo the hydraulic pump banjo bolt....
You can change the lift pump without taking the injector pump off.
Provided there isn't a loader on the tractor it's not too difficult to take off the injector pump, the drive coupling has a fat spline, so you cant put it back incorrectly, but we have found that if you want to swap pumps from one tractor to another the fat spline isn't always in the same place. This means removing the front of the tractor and the timing case cover and re- timing. not a job for the faint hearted, and probably simpler to have your pump re-conditioned.It doesn't work to remove the splined coupling either.
We found this out the hard way when we tried to put a pump off an 8145 onto an Ursus 941.
You can change the lift pump without taking the injector pump off.
Provided there isn't a loader on the tractor it's not too difficult to take off the injector pump, the drive coupling has a fat spline, so you cant put it back incorrectly, but we have found that if you want to swap pumps from one tractor to another the fat spline isn't always in the same place. This means removing the front of the tractor and the timing case cover and re- timing. not a job for the faint hearted, and probably simpler to have your pump re-conditioned.It doesn't work to remove the splined coupling either.
We found this out the hard way when we tried to put a pump off an 8145 onto an Ursus 941.
Thanks again, Dave. Can't wait for the weekend so I can bark a few knuckles. Of course the tractor has a loader so I know it won't be easy. Let you know how I got on next week. One more question. Is there a way to test if it is the lift pump once I get it out?
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Sorry, Bill, but off hand I can't think of an easy one.... Maybe someone else can. Ours just stopped pumping on the road with a load of straw, so it was a matter of the quickest fix which was replacing the lift pump with one off a wrecked engine.
Hi
To test the lift pump you should be able to feel suction on one side and pressure on the other. If you operate the plunger by hand it should make 2 "croaking noises" (like a frog !!!) on each operation.
Happy croaking
Mike
To test the lift pump you should be able to feel suction on one side and pressure on the other. If you operate the plunger by hand it should make 2 "croaking noises" (like a frog !!!) on each operation.
Happy croaking
Mike
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Mike, How's that going to determine if its leaking into the injector pump?
By the way , make me an offer for the 7245 pump plate, also a good crystal crank c/w bearings.
Dave
By the way , make me an offer for the 7245 pump plate, also a good crystal crank c/w bearings.
Dave
Thanks Mike & Dave. I've been giving a lot of thought to Dave's idea of an electric pump. It would solve two problems
(a) If I put the electric pump on and it still leaked -- then the problem is probably the injection pump itself.
(b) If it is the lift pump then I never have to worry about the lift pump again and that's the end of the knucklebreaking problem of getting it on and off.
I did put an electric pump on one of my Case 930's a long time ago and have never had a problem with it. Also it would (I think) be considerably cheaper. I was quoted about $A370 for a new lift pum; I reckon a good electric would only be about $A 150.
The only thing worrying me is shutting off the bottom of the injection pump where the lift pum attaches. I suppose it would be all right just to make up a plate and put it across and reroute all the supply and overfow lines. What do you think?
(a) If I put the electric pump on and it still leaked -- then the problem is probably the injection pump itself.
(b) If it is the lift pump then I never have to worry about the lift pump again and that's the end of the knucklebreaking problem of getting it on and off.
I did put an electric pump on one of my Case 930's a long time ago and have never had a problem with it. Also it would (I think) be considerably cheaper. I was quoted about $A370 for a new lift pum; I reckon a good electric would only be about $A 150.
The only thing worrying me is shutting off the bottom of the injection pump where the lift pum attaches. I suppose it would be all right just to make up a plate and put it across and reroute all the supply and overfow lines. What do you think?
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Just leave it there. Only by-pass the lift pump. When it eventually seizes it will stick with the piston pushed in so wont cause any problems. Unless of course you are exceptionally tidy....
They cost 98 in UK so your price isn't out of line, but it seems very expensive, since most Zetor parts are reasonable.
Where are you in Australia ?
They cost 98 in UK so your price isn't out of line, but it seems very expensive, since most Zetor parts are reasonable.
Where are you in Australia ?
I'm in Central Queensland, Dave, near a place called Theodore about 250kms south west of Rockhampton. I have a 4000 acre property about 200kms away near a very small town called Jackson. This is where the Zetor is. I raise cattle and use the Zetor for planting grass but mainly for shifting hay bales. I'm relatively isolated so I really appreciate the help you have given me with this problem as getting someone to come and have a look is a major financial undertaking. Getting parts can also be a bit of a major headache -- you can't just run down the road and fixing something even minor because I am only there on the weekends can sometimes take months if it is complicated. I have quite a bit ot machinery -- Allis Chalmers HD11 dozer, 2 Case 930s, Allis 7060, David Brown 1200 - so lots of breakdowns but this is the first time I've had any trouble with the Zetor. I've had it about 6 years.
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Thanks for that, Bill, my son lives between Ballarrat and Geelong in Victoria, rather a long way away. Ive never been to Queensland, but one day.....
I envy you your HD11, is it the Allis engine or the Detroit in that one?
I envy you your HD11, is it the Allis engine or the Detroit in that one?
Sorry to take so long to get back to you,Dave, but sometimes work catches up with you! My HD11 has an Allis engine -- old but so far reliable.
I finally got to my 8145 and put in an electric pump which seems to be doing the job although I was only able to run the tractor for an hour. Reading the oil level after having so much diesel circulating in the engine is not all that easy as the oil is so clean. When i get back to it, I will have to drop the oil again and measure how much comes out. Probably replace it as it possibly has some diesel still in it despite the tractor standing for a fortnight. I also found that one of the injectors was not working properly so I took it out and pulled it apart -- which was not all that smart as I haven't a gauge and pump for resetting the tension on the injector spring setting the injector pressure. I did expect to find a lock nut on the tension setter but there was none there and it was very loose so I reckon the tension was not right anyway. Might have to try the trial and error method.
I finally got to my 8145 and put in an electric pump which seems to be doing the job although I was only able to run the tractor for an hour. Reading the oil level after having so much diesel circulating in the engine is not all that easy as the oil is so clean. When i get back to it, I will have to drop the oil again and measure how much comes out. Probably replace it as it possibly has some diesel still in it despite the tractor standing for a fortnight. I also found that one of the injectors was not working properly so I took it out and pulled it apart -- which was not all that smart as I haven't a gauge and pump for resetting the tension on the injector spring setting the injector pressure. I did expect to find a lock nut on the tension setter but there was none there and it was very loose so I reckon the tension was not right anyway. Might have to try the trial and error method.
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Helo, Bill. Those that know reckon that the Allis engine is the more reliable and will go on for ever.
When you re-assemble your Zetor injector be sure to line up the marks on the nozzle body and the casing to make sure the jets are pointing the correct way, this is important.
I think there should be a lock nut on the adjusting screw, but I cant swear to that until I get out into the shop and check one out !
Without a test pump you can't get the break pressure correct.
It should be 168 KP/sq cm or for us oldies 168 ats or 2,300 psi.
all you can do is attach the injector to an injector pipe , crank the tractor and make sure the spray pattern is OK and " sharp" when it blows off and I'm sure I don't need to tell you to keep hands and any other body parts well away from the nozzle. It will blast diesel into your flesh and give you serious problems !!
Hope this helps a bit, Dave
When you re-assemble your Zetor injector be sure to line up the marks on the nozzle body and the casing to make sure the jets are pointing the correct way, this is important.
I think there should be a lock nut on the adjusting screw, but I cant swear to that until I get out into the shop and check one out !
Without a test pump you can't get the break pressure correct.
It should be 168 KP/sq cm or for us oldies 168 ats or 2,300 psi.
all you can do is attach the injector to an injector pipe , crank the tractor and make sure the spray pattern is OK and " sharp" when it blows off and I'm sure I don't need to tell you to keep hands and any other body parts well away from the nozzle. It will blast diesel into your flesh and give you serious problems !!
Hope this helps a bit, Dave
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Bill, There should be a locknut on the adjusting screw, it's a very thin walled nut that takes a 14mm spanner.
Dave
Dave
Sorry to take so long to get back to you, Dave but ISP problems, and believe it or not, rain in Queensland have held things up. There are no locknuts on my injectors. I suspect that whoever owned the tractor before me removed them so the injectors could be taken out without having to remove all the paraphrenalia that surrounds them -- fuel tank, parts of the fork assembly ....
I set the injector pressure using the most archaic pressure gauge I have ever seen, but it worked. (Pressure is approx 2500psi). When I replaced the injector, the tractor went without missing. Unfortunately to date I have not had a chance to really check that the sump full of diesel problem has been solved. I need to run the tractor for two or three hours to check if there is any diesel in the sump.
I set the injector pressure using the most archaic pressure gauge I have ever seen, but it worked. (Pressure is approx 2500psi). When I replaced the injector, the tractor went without missing. Unfortunately to date I have not had a chance to really check that the sump full of diesel problem has been solved. I need to run the tractor for two or three hours to check if there is any diesel in the sump.
