Topic Messages  
HomeHome HelpHelp Sign upSign up Log inLog in

Zetorworld forum
Tractor forum
135 forterra 2012 engine problem.

Moderators: Renze, TomZ

The Web Zetorworld.com only
forterra11441

Member Icon

Nothing runs like a Zetor

Posts: 455
Gender:


135 forterra 2012 engine problem.  
  Started at Mon Feb 25 22:50:45 2013
Talked to dealer today, and they said they have had to remove the cylinder head of the engine becuase exhaust valves at low temperatures did not go bak and close due to exessive soot on valve stem, leaving the engine with no compression. the solution is to remove the EGR take off the pipe from exhaust to inlet and plug the holes. they have also changed some of the vales due to problems caused by exxessive soot. thats why i hope zetor goes common rail with little or no EGR. id rather have AD blue then engine failiure.


Happy owner of a 2013 Forterra HSX 140, with track lift 260 SLi loader, 1994 6340 with Quike 640 loader.
 
  ProfileProfile Send MessageSend Message  


Renze
Administrator


Member Icon

Goed goan !!

Posts: 4066
Gender:


Re: 135 forterra 2012 engine problem.  
  Reply #1 Posted at Tue Feb 26 17:57:14 2013
Last Modified at Tue Feb 26 17:58:12 2013 by Renze

How long have you run the engine at light loads ? Probably driving bales to the cattle with the loader all winter, without ever getting the tractor hot ?

AdBlue is not a magic solution, it also freezes and is heavily corrosive. But its the best of two evils. Manufacturers are given 20 minutes to thaw the AdBlue system before they must comply to the emission standard... wink


1967 Zetor 3011, technically new, needs paint
1973 Zetor 5718, repainted and shiny, rebuilding it bit by bit
1978 Zetor 5718, rough but full options !! (synchro box, power steering and 1000rpm PTO) wink
 
  ProfileProfile WebsiteWebsite E-mailE-mail Send MessageSend Message  


forterra11441

Member Icon

Nothing runs like a Zetor

Posts: 455
Gender:


Re: Re: 135 forterra 2012 engine problem.  
  Reply #2 Posted at Tue Feb 26 21:42:34 2013
Last Modified at Tue Feb 26 21:46:33 2013 by forterra11441


On Tue Feb 26 17:57:14 2013, Renze wrote: (read quoted post)
How long have you run the engine at light loads ? Probably driving bales to the cattle with the loader all winter, without ever getting the tractor hot ?

AdBlue is not a magic solution, it also freezes and is heavily corrosive. But its the best of two evils. Manufacturers are given 20 minutes to thaw the AdBlue system before they must comply to the emission standard... wink


this tactor does almost no light work, in winter its used for snow ploughing etc so thats not the problem, i use my tractors i dont just idle around with it. Exhaust gas has by my opinion nothing to do in the intake side of an engine.


Happy owner of a 2013 Forterra HSX 140, with track lift 260 SLi loader, 1994 6340 with Quike 640 loader.
 
  ProfileProfile Send MessageSend Message  


Renze
Administrator


Member Icon

Goed goan !!

Posts: 4066
Gender:


Re: 135 forterra 2012 engine problem.  
  Reply #3 Posted at Tue Feb 26 22:11:20 2013
Last Modified at Tue Feb 26 22:41:43 2013 by Renze

Hmm thats interesting... Ive never heard of that before. I did hear of all kinds of other EGR caused problems (first hand from work) and even stuck valves in just one year ?? What type of oil are you using ? it might improve the problem a bit..

But you're right, from a technical point of view i dont like EGR either, yet manufacturers often just dont have a choice. Retarding injection was a common solution for TIER 2 but caused inefficient combustion and therewith a huge fuel consumption. Then EGR came along, offering the cheapest solution of controlling NoX without the inefficient combustion of injecting when the piston was already on its way down. But to get TIER 3B in the 175-750hp class (2.0gr/kkwh NoX) the amount of EGR is so high that you need a VGT, sometimes two, and a throttle valve to cause an artificial pressure difference between intake and exhaust manifold, the engine is pumping against this pressure (which is energy lost) and there is more flow resistance because a 40% higher volume of air is pressed through the engine. That while adding a lot of complexity.

I am not a fan of italian stuff in common, but the FPT (CNH engine) solution does make for a very straightforward engine. Just commercially available SCR systems offer a reduction of about 80% and FPT developed a system with 95% efficiency, thats why they dont need EGR.

Volvo trucks uses un-cooled EGR, just to increase the exhaust gas temperature at low loads: you want at least 200 degrees into the SCR to let it to function properly.

Anyways, i have no idea whats possible with the current high pressure inline pump, so if you dont need it, no common rail for me. When 20% biodiesel was blended in the mix by law in Holland, both Denso (deere) and Bosch (cummins) common rail systems failed dramatically because of bacteria growth in fuel tanks. Its better now with proper antibacterial additives, but the fact that anything without common rail was just chugging along, proves that the classic pump is better for future alternative fuels..

There are a lot of pros and cons for every path, and the biggest pro for EGR is that you can cap it off afterwards wink


1967 Zetor 3011, technically new, needs paint
1973 Zetor 5718, repainted and shiny, rebuilding it bit by bit
1978 Zetor 5718, rough but full options !! (synchro box, power steering and 1000rpm PTO) wink
 
  ProfileProfile WebsiteWebsite E-mailE-mail Send MessageSend Message  


Hidden Valley Engineering

Member Icon

Steve

Posts: 181
Gender:


Re: 135 forterra 2012 engine problem.  
  Reply #4 Posted at Wed Feb 27 06:46:57 2013
Last Modified at Wed Feb 27 06:48:17 2013 by Hidden Valley Engineering

Yes! no good ever came from an EGR system, i have removed more than i can count on cars and vans and in every case the result was more power and better economy!
it is all too common for the EGR valve to stick, usually half open and half shut, and this will quickly soot up the whole intake system...... oddly enough at all but light loads ...... because light loads is when the EGR is supposed to be open..... not at full power.

Easy to cap it off tho happy
In NZ we don't need them by law so i just remove the whole system to save weight and space under the hood, but where it is a mandatory fitment then just insert a flat plate (Steel Gasket) between the hot tube and the intake manifold, and you cant even tell it's been disabled happy

Common rail diesels do give better power and economy....... but i would hate to ever have to pay to fix one out of warranty!!!
Example: Toyota Hilux Ute, 3L Diesel Turbo 4 pot, have used CRDI for the last 7 odd years, almost every one has had to have the Injectors replaced at between 25K and 75K .... to the point that they did a (very quiet) recall and replaced all injectors, pump and fuel lines right back to the tank as a 60K "Special Service"
while this was done under warranty (and without telling the owners) the cost of this repair was NZ$25K ! on a Ute that cost $50-60K New!


Whatever the question was, the answer is MORE POWER wink


1977 6745 soon to have a FEL fitted
 
  ProfileProfile Send MessageSend Message  


forterra11441

Member Icon

Nothing runs like a Zetor

Posts: 455
Gender:


Re: 135 forterra 2012 engine problem.  
  Reply #5 Posted at Wed Feb 27 10:04:37 2013
i use Castrol power ultra oil so it shouldnt be the oil quality thats the problem.



Happy owner of a 2013 Forterra HSX 140, with track lift 260 SLi loader, 1994 6340 with Quike 640 loader.
 
  ProfileProfile Send MessageSend Message  


dhi77


Posts: 11



Re: 135 forterra 2012 engine problem.  
  Reply #6 Posted at Thu Feb 28 23:24:41 2013
Blanking off the EGR will solve the problem,Forterra11441 did you sell your other Forterra?

 
  ProfileProfile Send MessageSend Message  


forterra11441

Member Icon

Nothing runs like a Zetor

Posts: 455
Gender:
Re: Re: 135 forterra 2012 engine problem.  
  Reply #7 Posted at Fri Mar 1 08:57:20 2013

On Thu Feb 28 23:24:41 2013, dhi77 wrote: (read quoted post)
Blanking off the EGR will solve the problem,Forterra11441 did you sell your other Forterra?


Yep sold it and bought a 6340 instead, since there was nu use in having such a big tractor standing around who with little use, also i wanted a forrestry tractor as vell, and the 6340 came with a full steel belly.



Happy owner of a 2013 Forterra HSX 140, with track lift 260 SLi loader, 1994 6340 with Quike 640 loader.
 
  ProfileProfile Send MessageSend Message  


Member List Member List
Who's online: 26 guests


This forums webmaster: webmaster(at)zetorworld.com