info Crystal... a year in the field now ?

[Renze]

You have to get used to it, but the red wheels give it class.. I still think it looks gorgeous... Best Zetor design ever. Screw Pininfarina.

Review from a contractor around my work area: You can feel it has a long wheelbase. It pulls and rides like a freight train !! (They compare it to a JD 7810 which in fact has allmost the same wheelbase. Perhaps the tires are less jumpy, or the Carraro axle trumps Deeres TLS ?? (I know TLS with its short tracking rod, reacts funny when a heavy tandem trailer is pushing the drawbar aside when driving curves... the independent Carraro doesnt have that shit)

Their main complaint was that because of the low placed cab at the back of the tractor (where it has been on short 4 cylinder Forterras since 1991) makes it very hard to look inside the silage trailer, and also hard to look over the hood... Well that was what people were saying from the start..

Another complaint was that it still had the armwrestler style external hydraulic levers... Yup people also said that for a decace..

Short said, when Zetor brings out the Crystal CL (version two) it should have the cab moved up an inch or three, and two inches forward. It would solve all visibility problems. Next to that, it makes room to use the Proxima cab with the arches above the wheels, and mold a good mudguard inbetween this curve and the Crystal 650/65R38 wheel. Yes, and i mean Proxima cab including the external hydraulic spools: When the cab is placed higher, the lever mechanism should have enough room above the wheel in the Crystal as well...

And then it needs an 8 ton rear axle. Deere is offering 8.5 in the M series, 10 ton in the R series. Fendt is offering 8 ton and 335x10 lug pattern even in the lightest 700's. For interchangeability with the Forterra which also uses 38" rims, (and later use 10x335mm only with 42" rims on the 200hp tractor) i would opt for an 8x275mm lug pattern and 15mm rear rims for the Crystal, Valtra and ZF prove its possible, with the proper flange transitions.

Really, the Crystal has everything you need on a basic tractor: Automatic powershift and hitch tronic are provisions that make it stand out from a used Deere or New holland (with which it will compete even more than with a new Deere or NH), the looks are great, the ride is great, and the transmission is perfect for a basic tractor. It just needs a better positioned cab for a better overview, better hydraulic levers, and better positioned gas struts so you dont have to get out of your seat to pull the door closed, and then yank it again against the force of the gas strut to get it to catch the lock...

They are so close, yet far away.. Its the 80/20 rule: with the first 80% of provisions you get only 20% customer statisfaction... With the last 20% of provisions, which make a basic tractor work really well, gets you the other 80% of customer statisfaction...

The Mercedes slogan applies even to a very basic tractor: The best or nothing. The things you put on, should be executed to perfection. If you cant, within its price bracket, then dont put it on it at all... Fendts 300 series was very basic, but what they put on it, they did right... (even though they dont last when putting out more than 90hp) and it was Germanies most popular tractor for two decades.


When looking at the annual reports, they describe new developments even more vague: Something about user improvements. I guess (and hope) that means a redesign of the cab...

Furthermore the Zetor Minor 50 is proposed for 2017.. American dealers will be delighted



Here, i was bored today (waiting for the heater repairman) so i tinkered with the cab position a bit:



It will solve all visibility issues, both over the hood, and into the silage trailer (or to the harvester pipe)
Furthermore it creates room between the cab interior panel and the wheel, so the four hydraulic remotes of the Proxima can be fitted on the Crystal.

Those two modifications alone, along with the door strut modification, would double the marketability of the Crystal because of first impressions.. then later an 8 ton rear axle for longevity in contracting use, and thats your Crystal Then later, along this Crystal CL, add a DSG gearbox as Crystal DS, (with load-sensing pump, mechanically controlled) and then a version with DSG gearbox, LS pump and the electrohydraulics of the Forterra HD.

 

[hughbroome2]

The Crystal hasn't been sold in the US, yet. I wonder if Zetor has any plans for introducing it to the North American market. I agree with you that the Forterra cab needs a redesign.

You are also correct about it needing heavier axles. If you overbuild a tractor, then the wear is less as you use the tractor. You should get longer life out of a heavier tractor because you are not constantly pushing the tractor to its limits and stressing the components. With that said, I think the marketing and accounting people in today's tractor companies are not worried about overbuilding a tractor; they are in the business of selling tractors. If you have a good reliable tractor that is overbuilt and lasts for years, then you won't sell many. There will be no reason for people to purchase heavy duty tractors. I think they are more worried about the volume of tractors they sell than the reliability. Hopefully, Zetor can fix the issues with the Crystal. What you are proposing is very possible and would not result in drastic changes. I think making small changes and updates will slowly improve their line of tractors. When tractor companies make drastic changes, I get scared. There are too many variables at play in drastic changes.

 

[Renze]

Zetors DSG gearbox patent is useless because it doesnt work, you cant change gears under load in reverse because the one layshaft is occupied to inverse the rotation of the other so you cant preselect another gear whilst in reverse...

Also whats described on the IMI Brno website as a "double clutch gearbox" with "all gears shiftable under load" actually looks like a robotised gearbox, by which the 5 manual gears are shifted by solenoids during automatic declutching... which would be a useless addition on a close ratio 3 stage powershift gearbox, to bridge the ratios ZF and Deere span between the ratio of 1st and 4th, zetor would need 4 and a half steps.

I just dont know what these guys are up to... their most loyal dealers have given up on them and they only show an Italian piece of plastic on their 8 year old Maxterra prototype...

Again, they focus on selling another Major version in Poland, whilst loosing all customer loyalty in the West because they did a half job on their bigger tractors... It would be quite easy to fix but apparently they feel no urge...

 

[tom_1]

We had one to try in June, and it was an animal pulled like a train and was very smooth over the bumps. The breaks weren't great and banged in and out so we disconnected them plus the 4x4 made a really load wineing noise. And like you said the cab needs to be higher in side and the proxima spools if they did that then it would be great

 

[Renze]

5245 howled like a pack of wolves too in 4wd.

Is it the 4wd you hear whine in this video ?



I was already wondering why it had this whine, where the Forterra with the same gearbox hasnt... Most probably its a frequency resonation of the 4wd drive gears, which are different to the Forterra because of 28 inch front rubber.... That, or the front diff has a different ratio which happens to resonate on another pair of gears in the driveline... or even an engine frequency can resonate on a gear.

Yup its more than slapping parts together.. Cummins 5.9 resonates on a ZF SAE 3 PTO gearbox and makes it rattle at low rpm...

 

[tom_1]

Yes that's the sound ,it was to much and if they had just spent a bit longer getting the gearing right and other parts of the cab . Enyway as it stands it was to expensive for what you had to put up with witch is a huge shame, as we did like it . I'd have like to put it on a dyno it must have been punching above in weight.

 

[forterra9641]

The forterra 135 i had with the 24/18 gearbox whines alt in 4wd. but my 140 hsx doesent whine at all. only difference is the gearbox, same front axle,same engine.

 

[tom_1]

The crystal has a different front axle. It's the gearing that's out or something. I had a 2008 12441 and that made a tiny bit of noise but nothing like what the crystal did.

 

[Renze]

In an interview last year, Zetor let know that it will take another 2 to 3 years (1 to 2 years from today) before they show results of various R&D projects (DSG transmission, Common Rail injection, six cylinder engine) in the new big range.


News on the 50hp prototype will be introduced in the course of 2017. I expect the Major tier 4F to have the same Zetor 3 cylinder: a very common engine choice in this weight and size class today. Valtra doesnt even offer a 4 cylinder under 100hp anymore...

What happens to the Crystal: there is no way to tell. Zetor has looked into two, 5 and 6 cylinder configurations, putting a 5 cylinder in the 2nd gen Crystal 140-155-170 hp models both replacing Forterra HD and Crystal, would set it apart in the 4 vs 6 cylinder dilemma which the customer faces today... Off course if they do, marketing emphasis should be put to achieving the optimum economy by getting the optimal power/displacement ratio, instead of presenting it as an easy way out for the manufacturer

I think a Crystal 2 with a Zetor 5 cylinder would be more talked about than the Pininfarina design... it certainly would be a unique selling point