news Forterra HSX redesign for 2013

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All righty, i've just compared the instruction manual side by side, of the HSX 2012 model and the new 2013 model from the link by ZetorfanPL:

new features:

- four PTO speeds: a lever for standard/eco is added along with the existing 540/1000 flipswitch: This replaces the ground speed PTO
- (dis)engagement of the PTO whenever the 3pt is operated (headland automation)
- new heating and airconditioning unit: its mounted at the back instead of at the front, so view on traffic lights or a front loader is much better:
- a glass roofhatch with rollshade
- wheelbase is indeed increased to 2590mm, NOT by stretching the chassis but by moving the front axle 100mm forward: overall length is not increased, so with heavy front ballast the balance is better because it extends 10cm less over the front axle.
- 800kg concrete front 3pt ballast is added as a factory option
- front axle with center driveshaft, allowing for bigger wheel steering angle
- with optional flexible front fender consoles the turning space over the outer edge of the tractor is allmost 2 meter smaller (despite the wheelbase increase !)
- optional drip oil collection on the rear remote outlets

Zetor has promised us some more things which will be still in the pipeline:

-front axle suspension
-cab suspension (test models have been around since 2011)
- 80l/min oil flow

It makes sense to save this for a six cylinder 145-160-175hp Forterra HD series with 4 stage powershift, 90mm rear axle and overdrive transmission, with a wheelbase of around 2750mm, because 100hp isnt enough to drive 50kmh with a big load in the trailer anyways... Lets wait and see about this Forterra HD thing, i dont expect many four cylinder heavy duty tractors get sold, so all those extra models will only compete other horses from the same stable, but not with other brands... ??

What this HSX still needs is a bigger front tire, these 24" tires eat away very fast on the road with 800kg front ballast or a heavy front implement: mostly because of the smaller circumference, also because of just the weight on them. A tire comparable to 16.9R24 or 14.9R28 in height, in combination with the existing rear tire diameter (if the rear tire size is also increased, it needs longer 3pt lift arms and trailer towhooks, so the advantage of the longer wheelbase is gone)

Next to that, speaking from experience when we first got our 5245 with optional fast reverse speed (meaning 2 and 3rd gear are also mirrored) it takes a long time to get used to a gear pattern that deviates from what is common. You cant change the position of the 5th gear unless you put the shift collar on the ingoing shaft, but nevertheless i would flip the other gears so you have 1-3 on the front and 2-4-5 on the back: people that shift gears without thinking, will get gears 1-4 allways right because its the same as in their car, their previous Forterra or their Proxima. Only when they try to get the 5th they will feel there is no gear on the right front, so they will correct immediately and find the 5th right-back.
Or perhaps there is some method of mirroring the 5th gear in the shift mechanism itself, so the 5th would have a logical position too...
Zetor used to advertise not long ago with "all you need is a key" well this inversed gear pattern certainly is something to get used to, not to turn the key and and drive away on your "autopilot"... I just dont understand why they didnt get that right on a tractor with which they allmost catch up to world standard

So that leaves only 2 points of criticism

 

[Renze]

So a question to all forum users:

Would you buy a four cylinder "heavy duty" tractor, or if you wanted a physically bigger tractor than the current Forterra range (higher weight, bigger tires, longer chassis, more lifting power, stronger axles) should it be a six cylinder ?

 

[international]

Six cylinder would be good but there take on the 540/1000eco looks like a short cut with it just limited to 60kw may be the HEAVY DUTY model will correct this flaw.Difflock and larger tyres for the front axle along with cab suspension and 40 km eco should be incorperated in to the current range .While the position of the exhaust needs to be looked in to as pushes the loader to far ahead of the front axle.I feel that there are producing good equipment but need to move a good bit quicker as customers will be looking else where especialy as they seemed to have up there prices .

 

[Renze]

internationalXL, dont forget that the HSX 2012 was already 10cm longer than your 10641 and the model 2013 yet again 10cm, while the cab (and exhaust) remain at the same position: that already makes the world of difference. That last change of the 2013 model, will place the front axle further forward without lengthening the tractor: that gives more tipload without decreasing the outreach of the loader. win/win
From my background in industrial wheel loaders, i estimate that on this 2390mm wheelbase of the original Forterra, a 20cm increase can up the tipload by 20% or more

Also, you're right on the 60Kw its not enough for an eco PTO. the engine delivers 90% of its horses at 1600rpm, so 90kw. That means that you can only load the engine for 2/3 at 540E. Also its a shame that they seem not to offer ground speed PTO anymore, reversing the PTO is just great to release plugged up balers, saving a lot of work. Also, there is a renewed interest here for silage trailers with axles driven by the ground speed PTO.

So you do see a market for cab and axle suspension and 40km at 1800 engine rpm, even in a farm class four cylinder tractor ? When the first Fendt 411 arrived in the area, it turned out that it used the same amount of fuel on transport duty than a 40kmh Fendt 612E of 145hp on the same trip and same trailer, because it was constantly working to get to 50kmh. the 612E had the grunt to quickly accelerate to 40kmh at 2200rpm and then cruise at high idle, therefor burned exactly the same fuel and took the same time for the trip as a 115hp 411.

Really, if you dont have the power to get to cruise speed, you're burning a lot more fuel with a less powerful tractor. Next to that, i can imagine problems with those 80mm halfshafts when bouncing around at 50kmh while the driver doesnt notice a thing in his suspended cab... We've seen that here with the ZF rear end...

Oh, and, if they, as you say, "moved a good bit quicker" their prices will increase even more... When people dont buy them for the price anymore, they buy them for the dealer. There used to be a few dealers in my district that are an embarassment because they never sell anything: fading tractors on a dealers lot is the worst advertising you can have. All Zetor users go to a dealer 20km further away which are really pushing the brand, having proper knowledge about the product and selling lots of them. They may get good service at this main dealer, but their neighbours only see the fading demo tractors in the yard of the disfunctioning dealer in town and talk about that... (peer pressure)

Anyways, the 160hp four cylinder tractors: I see it as a fashion thing, because Valtra has them, nobody wants to stay behind. But in practice the medium farmer that has a contractor to do most work and doesnt invest too much in machinery, buys the utility four cylinder, and the large farmer that does all his work by himself (little contracting) likes tractors and therefor wants a six cylinder field tractor.
People that buy those 160hp four cylinders usually buy a 30 to 40 horses more than they need, because they use it as a utility tractor rather than a field tractor.
I wonder if Zetor came with a larger chassis 4 cylinder of 150-160hp, would it compete with the 160hp 4 cylinders of Deere and NH, or would the buyer choose between the 4 and the 6 cylinder Zetor at 160hp ? If the latter, Zetor is competing against their own products and they are better off standardising by selling more numbers of either 4 cylinder HSX or six cylinder HD. So in short, a 4 cylinder HD will not compete against the competitions high hp four cylinders, but only against 6 cylinder models from the same Zetor stable, doubling development costs and decreasing profits... Well thats what i think

...or they should just get that 5 cylinder, ending all debate about 4 or 6

 

[Renze]

Another issue from the field, for Zetor to keep in mind when getting that HD out:

The Carraro suspended front axle has a lot of wear points, its costly to replace these bushings, just from the labour hours involved: Its a serious maintenance problem. Better is a front axle suspension such as Valmet, Fendt or Deere has, with a simple bracket and durable heavy hinges. Its probably cheaper to build as well.

 

[forterra9641]

Another issue from the field, for Zetor to keep in mind when getting that HD out:

The Carraro suspended front axle has a lot of wear points, its costly to replace these bushings, just from the labour hours involved: Its a serious maintenance problem. Better is a front axle suspension such as Valmet, Fendt or Deere has, with a simple bracket and durable heavy hinges. Its probably cheaper to build as well.

I agree they should build a bracket suspension and use a stiff axle. although the carraro axle is suspended independently on each side this doesent make up for the extensive maitenace these axels demand, i think there are about twenty greasing points on that axel. and its much more wounerable to wear and tear than a normal axel.

 

[dhi77]

Some pictures of 2013 model HSX at Lamma on Zetor UK facebook page, worth a look.

 

[Renze]

Some pictures of 2013 model HSX at Lamma on Zetor UK facebook page, worth a look.

this you mean...

Indeed it has an increase of wheelbase by moving the front axle towards the end of the chassis, NOT by lengthening the chassis itself: So it is not a compromise on compactness, because with the center drive 4wd axle it can steer even sharper than the old UR3 chassis, but it has the front axle closer to the load in the front 3pt lift or the frontloader: more stability without a compromise on manoeverability.

And also this:

Cab suspension ! they still make up their mind about front axle suspension perhaps, but since most tractors carry a front 3pt weight when doing heavy haulage anyways, they might as well put an accumulator on the front lift, 800kg of swinging mass damps out all the bounces. It keeps the front weight constantly in motion, but the tractor itself floats smooth...

 

[zetorfanpl]

Links do not work

 

[Renze]

Links do not work

For me they work... Do they not work for anyone else ?

 

[zetorfanpl]

Maby it is not allowed to get there from Poland so I used proxy server
There is also new axle Carraro another than previous 20.19

 

[Renze]

Maby it is not allowed to get there from Poland so I used proxy server

I doubt it, Poland is 40% of their market and therefor you guys allways get things first

There is also new axle Carraro another than previous 20.19

Yes its center drive now... i did not think it was possible to just put it underneath the belly of the tractor and get to front axle shaft height, but apparently it can..

 

[Renze]

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[Renze]

ZETOR TRACTORS a.s.

Zetor tractors, service and original spare parts.

www.zetor.com

Zetor has updated their website with the HSX model 2013. Clearly visible is the front axle which is moved forward, which will greatly improve road behaviour and stability with front 3pt lifts or loaders.

 

[jensb]

I am very interested in the new Forterra HSX, in fact, I am so interested, that I plan to buy a 140 HSX in 2015.

But one thing that I would like to know, and which I have not seen in the threads here, wha is the total weight of this tractor, and the maximum weight the axle front and rear.
Anyone know?

 

[carrick]

MODEL Units 100 110 120 130 140
OTHER SPECIFICATIONS
Drive System 4WD
Steering hydrostatic
Travelling/ Parking Brakes wet, disc, hydraulic /mechanical control
Trailer Brakes optional (air or hydraulics)
Digital Dashboard standard
DIMENSIONS
Weight kg 4 600
Length mm 4 770
Width over rear
mudguards mm 2 270
Height to Exhaust Mouth mm 2 810
Wheelbase mm 2 490
Front Wheels 13,6R24 14,9R24 disc
Rear Wheels 16,9 R 38 18,4R38 disc
Stage III A Type Zetor 1005 Zetor 1305 Zetor 1405 Zetor 1505 Zetor 1605
Stage III B Type Zetor 1006 Zetor 1306 Zetor 1406 Zetor 1506 Zetor 1606
Homologated Power
2000/ 25 (ISO) kW/HP 71 / 96 79 / 107 86 / 117
95 / 130
100 / 136
93 / 126
Rated Speed rpm 2 200
No. of Valves
8
16
16
No. of Cylinders 4
Aspiration turbocharged
Bore/ Stroke mm 105 / 120
Displacement cm 4 156
Max. Toque / Torque
Reserve (ECE R24) Nm / %
391/37 440/37 480/37 525/34 570/38
419/46 440/40 482 /37 540 /41 572 /38
TRANSMISSION
Type power shuttle with three-stage torque multiplier;
manual or automatic shifting of the torque multiplier
Shifting fully synchronized
No. of Gears 30/ 30
Speed kph 40
PTO
Type inde/minpendent and ground speed;
clutch engagement selecatble in stages to match the implement
Rear PTO revolutions rpm 540 / 1 000 (540E / 1 000 optional)
Front PTO revolutions rpm 1 000
HYDRAULICS
Type Bosch electronics with Zetor HitchTronic, 2 auxiliary cylinders
Three-point Hitch category II
Control electronic
Lift Capacity at the End
of lower Links kN 65 in total range, maximum 70
Operating Pressure MPa 20
Hydraulic Pump Capacity l/min 70
Hydraulics Quick
Couplings 3
According to the brochure on line

 

[Renze]

I am very interested in the new Forterra HSX, in fact, I am so interested, that I plan to buy a 140 HSX in 2015.

But one thing that I would like to know, and which I have not seen in the threads here, wha is the total weight of this tractor, and the maximum weight the axle front and rear.
Anyone know?

The dealer says, the new 140HSX engine is so powerful over a wide RPM range that the old 14245 is no match for it.... Even the 16245 didnt have the same mid range torque, only at below 1200rpm the six pot wins.

The rear axle capacity of the Forterra is 5500kg at 40kmh and standard trackwidth. At below 8kmh it goes to 7500kg or so.
Front axle is 4300kg at 40kmh or 5600 at 8kmh.

at page 217 you can find the load ratings:

ZETOR SERVICE

www.cals.cz

In fact these rear axles are the same 80mm axles as under the 16245, but i think with more bolts between the final drive and diff housing.

 

[donny2stroke]

really like what zetor is doing with their forterra's. nobody can contest that that are not a modern tractor nowl. at the same time, im a bit saddened by the fact that it IS just another tractor now. even the front axle and throttle/powershift controls and cab layout look the same as our claas tractor (not that thats a bad thing). For the time being they can only sell these if their prices stay competitive. really glad they got cab suspension and ecoPTO and LOVE the solid wheels though.

 

[Renze]

and LOVE the solid wheels though.

Why ?? Did the old ones tend to crack, like the front rims of a 5245 when used with a loader, or the rims of a Case 956 ?

 

[donny2stroke]

and LOVE the solid wheels though.

Why ?? Did the old ones tend to crack, like the front rims of a 5245 when used with a loader, or the rims of a Case 956 ?

the 5245 had solid rims did it not? actually never heard of any front rims cracking but if you loaded them too much the bolt interface between the center hub and rim itself would stress the bolts and eventually you would loose them. i just think solid rims are more functional than the double interface that they used to use (centerhub separate from rim itself) less hardware to worry about