news Forterra HSX redesign for 2013

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All righty, i've just compared the instruction manual side by side, of the HSX 2012 model and the new 2013 model from the link by ZetorfanPL:

new features:

- four PTO speeds: a lever for standard/eco is added along with the existing 540/1000 flipswitch: This replaces the ground speed PTO
- (dis)engagement of the PTO whenever the 3pt is operated (headland automation)
- new heating and airconditioning unit: its mounted at the back instead of at the front, so view on traffic lights or a front loader is much better:
- a glass roofhatch with rollshade
- wheelbase is indeed increased to 2590mm, NOT by stretching the chassis but by moving the front axle 100mm forward: overall length is not increased, so with heavy front ballast the balance is better because it extends 10cm less over the front axle.
- 800kg concrete front 3pt ballast is added as a factory option
- front axle with center driveshaft, allowing for bigger wheel steering angle
- with optional flexible front fender consoles the turning space over the outer edge of the tractor is allmost 2 meter smaller (despite the wheelbase increase !)
- optional drip oil collection on the rear remote outlets

Zetor has promised us some more things which will be still in the pipeline:

-front axle suspension
-cab suspension (test models have been around since 2011)
- 80l/min oil flow

It makes sense to save this for a six cylinder 145-160-175hp Forterra HD series with 4 stage powershift, 90mm rear axle and overdrive transmission, with a wheelbase of around 2750mm, because 100hp isnt enough to drive 50kmh with a big load in the trailer anyways... Lets wait and see about this Forterra HD thing, i dont expect many four cylinder heavy duty tractors get sold, so all those extra models will only compete other horses from the same stable, but not with other brands... ??

What this HSX still needs is a bigger front tire, these 24" tires eat away very fast on the road with 800kg front ballast or a heavy front implement: mostly because of the smaller circumference, also because of just the weight on them. A tire comparable to 16.9R24 or 14.9R28 in height, in combination with the existing rear tire diameter (if the rear tire size is also increased, it needs longer 3pt lift arms and trailer towhooks, so the advantage of the longer wheelbase is gone)

Next to that, speaking from experience when we first got our 5245 with optional fast reverse speed (meaning 2 and 3rd gear are also mirrored) it takes a long time to get used to a gear pattern that deviates from what is common. You cant change the position of the 5th gear unless you put the shift collar on the ingoing shaft, but nevertheless i would flip the other gears so you have 1-3 on the front and 2-4-5 on the back: people that shift gears without thinking, will get gears 1-4 allways right because its the same as in their car, their previous Forterra or their Proxima. Only when they try to get the 5th they will feel there is no gear on the right front, so they will correct immediately and find the 5th right-back.
Or perhaps there is some method of mirroring the 5th gear in the shift mechanism itself, so the 5th would have a logical position too...
Zetor used to advertise not long ago with "all you need is a key" well this inversed gear pattern certainly is something to get used to, not to turn the key and and drive away on your "autopilot"... I just dont understand why they didnt get that right on a tractor with which they allmost catch up to world standard

So that leaves only 2 points of criticism

 

[Renze]

Yes, these bolts could run loose and slide a little, causing a wobble. Our 4712 had it, the edge on which the wheel flange rests on the rim itself, was scuffed off and the play was ever increasing. So we welded them solid. On my 3011 i once heard them ticking when i had a manure tanker behind it, because they ran loose when i had the duals on. WE tightened them immediately to avoid getting play on the fitting edges which would make the problem permanent.

 

[donny2stroke]

Yes, these bolts could run loose and slide a little, causing a wobble. Our 4712 had it, the edge on which the wheel flange rests on the rim itself, was scuffed off and the play was ever increasing. So we welded them solid. On my 3011 i once heard them ticking when i had a manure tanker behind it, because they ran loose when i had the duals on. WE tightened them immediately to avoid getting play on the fitting edges which would make the problem permanent.

exactly. not saying solid rims are bullet proof either, after some research i found that solid rims will transfer a lot of the extra load over the center hub bolts which sometimes are not rated for the increased load. once these loosen up the rim will flex and crack around the holes. apparently kubota had a problem with this

 

[carrick]

Is the new cab roof design on the Major being transfered to HSX also. I am quite tall and prefer to drive in an upright position. The fortera/40 series roof heater has been a pain in the neck for years, can not beleave such a slight modification has made such an improvement to operator comfort and safety.

 

[Renze]

The HSX model 2013 indeed has a new roof with a glass hatch, and the heater is moved to the back of the cab.
I dont have many hours on a UR3 but the low hanging heater DID annoy me at the first traffic light i stopped for: I laid down over the steering wheel to see if the light turned green, its simply not visible without leaning over, which tires you quickly so you better lay down over it on your elbows.

Oh, and the external spool valve levers on the Forterra DO SUCK: you have to make a very awkward downward movement from the elbow, instead pushing it forward from the shoulder.

 

[carrick]

Agree on hydr lever. have even dismantled mine in the hope of being able to change the linkage so as controls could be forward back rather than up down to no avail, but would be a very simple fix for the designer/production team. Now they have covered the controls with plastic an after fit would be ugly.

 

[markku]

Forterra HSX range tractor should have 120l/min load sensing hydraulics, not fixed capacity continuous flow 80l/min It is now with missing 50km/h gearbox option only bigger need....

 

[Renze]

Markku, wouldnt you want 50kmh and 120l/min in a six cylinder 150-160hp ? I think they dont need to add all this to the HSX: they just need all these things in a heavier, more powerful Forterra HD range with another powershift step !

 

[mikep]

Why do people get hung up on 6 cylinders? They used to be smoother for sure but now a counterbalanced and turbocharged 4 beats them everytime. Compare a 150 hp turbo 4 to a N/A 6 and you find there is less drag and rotating mass so fuel economy is better the torque is better and there is less mass to throw on startup and cheaper to build. Need less oil and water and are easier to fit in a tractor with room for all the other stuff. Deere believe that up to 200 hp the 4 wins hands down but only use a six on some models because of prejudice.
If you need weight add ballast. One of the main attractions of zetors for me is the fact that they are compact for their power and moving 4.5 tonne 100hp machine is a lot better that the competitors 5.5 plus and with the price of fuel and tyres sky high this matters.

 

[Renze]

Deere sells industrial 4 cylinder engines up to 175hp. But for heavy duty, only the 140hp and lower configurations are suitable. 140-175hp they only rate for intermittent duty.

can you tell me how long ago one could buy a 150hp naturally aspirated six cylinder ? It must be 40 years ago.

People want a six cylinder because it has more torque at 1000 rpm so its more flexible when slowing down on the headland so you can make the turn without tearing up the sods. especially the 11441 was useless because its dead in the water below 1400rpm.

To get the 150hp from a 4 cylinder you need a "racing cam" with valve timing that performs at high rpm only. Which means its dead in the water at low rpm, just like the 11441 was.

They used different timing on the 5511 engine too, because it was their first 2200rpm engine. (2011-4011 were 2000rpm) The 5211 engine had better start off torque despite having 400cc less. Thats why they went back to the original cam timing of the 4011 even on the 7745....

if you have a continuously variable transmission that gives the engine some air by gearing down so it will get to 1400-1500rpm before accelerating, you can work with high hp four cylinders, or a 6.1 liter Deutz in a Fendt 828, but with a semi powershift, you just need a wide torque band, extending way down low to work smoothly. It doesnt need full torque, but it needs at least 70% of max torque at 1000rpm.

With a conservative transmission, you need conservative engine ratings.

About fuel consumption, the 4 cylinder at 150hp only wins in light duty applications. When on average 70% of power is used, the six cylinder wins hands down, both in fuel consumption and lifespan...

Which means a Forterra HD needs a six cylinder. Its not just psychology, just check industrial engine ratings: those extremely pepped engines arent rated for continuous duty, and they only work well in combination with a continuously variable transmission or full powershift, because having many gears is the proper excuse for a poor lugging engine...

You do have a point about fuel consumption and the tractors empty weight, but there are horses for courses: you need the HSX 4 cylinder for those jobs. Most people never take off their wheel weights, so all this shit about adding weight when you need it, doesnt work that way in practice. People that need a heavier tractor, ballast it and use it that way even when doing jobs that dont need that weight.

Here in Holland, all these dirt contractors bought a light Fendt 700 series to pull their dumptrailers, but added 800kg front 3pt weights to gain stability on the road. 10 years later they all use 800 series which have the weight built in (and they still add the front ballast when operating in tough conditions)

The choice between field traction or transport economy, is usually done during the coffee in the dealers office when specifying the factory options on the newly purchased tractor. Wheel weights never come off for a job that doesnt require them. They already have a HSX 4 cylinder for those that dont need the weight. Now they need a 6 cylinder heavy duty tractor that can CARRY the weight on the 3pt or the trailer pickup hitch and still remain safe and stable because of its own weight.

At work i'm trying to find the proper TIER 4 engine for a payloader: There arent many modern engines available that can take the 500Nm of hydraulic pump torque at low idle and then still be able to accelerate under load, the life is squeezed out of them: Either by high EGR rates that lets the turbo spool down at idle, or because the fuel supply is cut untill the turbo delivers some air, to avoid smoke on acceleration.

If you want usable torque performance from a modern engine without the shitload of vulnerable band aids like VGT's you just need displacement...