Hydraulics - New PUMP?

[flax]

Hi
The hydraulics are slow on my 6245 , I have a loader on it and to use it effectively have always had to run the PTO at 1000 when working the loader.

I finally thinking of replacing the hyd pump as it's slowed up even more recently but , I am not convinced that it will fix the problem , Reason is my 6245 has only done 2000 hours , I had the loader put on about 12 months ago , so the hyd pump has never had to do that much work ( maybe 200 hours at 1000) and I find it hard to beleive it would be stuffed after such a short time . ( Hdraulics was always slow when I bought the 6245 second hand at the 2000 hours and before the loader was added) .

I changed the oil , filters etc etc and it makes no difference.
Any suggestions?do you think I should get the new pump

By the way are the Vapormatic pumps any good , they are much cheaper than the orginal zetor ones ( in australia anyway )

 

[Renze]

I have bought a new pump (the newer type, 32 liter per minute instead of the old 20 liter version) from Igor Radolec, you can contact him at accklimat@accklimat.sk
I am using it with a loader for allmost a year now, and i am still very happy with it... The price was very good also !

 

[ixer0]

Have you checked the suction filter in the pump plate.

 

[flax]

well I fitted the new pump , filters new oil o rings, gasket etc and things certainly work a lot better, On the 540 speed the loader now works as fast as it used to on the 1000 speed.

I have one small concern , when on 1000 speed the pump is quite noisy ,goes quieter when loader is being used , is that normal ?
I only need to use the 1000 speed occassionally now when I want a bit more grunt but was worried about the noise.

Thank you to Popeye for the photos , made it much easier for me to do the job

 

[ixer0]

Hi, I wouldnt reccomend using hydraulics too often in 1000 PTO as pump will still only give same pressure (maybe slightly more oil flow) but will wear out much quicker. The noise is coming from wear in gears/bearings etc.

 

[paul_walpole]

When you first start the tractor cold, throw over the PTO to 1000 and sit it on 2000 RPM.
Feel the fitting going into the loader valcve bank. If it heats up in a matter of minutes the noise you are hearing is the pressure relief valve just comming off its seat. This will casue a heat build up in the oil. Use the oil in the loader and this acts like a pressure relife so the noise goes away.
If it is gear noise it will be noisy all of the time.

 

[flax]

Hi Paul .

I'll try it tomorrow and see if I can feel the heat bit late tonight , but the noise definately goes away when the loader is used so I am guessing it will be the relief valve so my next question is does that mean I need to repalce the relief vavle or just accept the noise as normal

Thanks for your help

 

[flax]

If the PTO is set at 540 , the loader can't lift a full bucket of dirt above the height of the steering wheel , If I set the PTO at 1000 it can lift it easy to as high as the loader goes - but there some werid nosie coming from the hydraulics when the loader is not moving - what should i be looking at to make the hydraulics work better at 540.

 

[Renze]

You just need a new pump

 

[flax]

but thats my problem , I just fitted a brand new pump and still having the problem

 

[ixer0]

It sounds like one of the relief valves. The one on the loader spool valve or the one on the tractor pump plate. The only way to find out without a pressure gauge is trial and error. Could be an expensive error!!

 

[paul_walpole]

Ok, the plot thickens.
The fact that the pump has been changed tells you all will be ok there so as suggested, either relief valve is below the specified pressure. the reason the loader lifts in 1000 PTO is that the relief buils pressure behind it with the higher oil flow sending higher pressure to the system. Remember that in 1000 PTO the flow increase at the pump will be increased 85%. Trouble is the oil galleries and valves are not big enough to handle the flow hence the higher noises at 1000 PTO, high revs.

To sort out which relief valve is causing the problem you need to diconnect the oil flow to the loader. Normally (In OZ), the loader is plumbed to the remote with the leaver fixed either rearward or forwards. Is yours the same. If so, but putting the leaver in neutral, the loader should have no oil flow.
If this is the case, now pick up a heavey weight on the rear 3PTL. If it is the tractor relieft nect to the pump then it will also make the lift arms weak. Check this in 540 though. If they are as keen as a 16 year old boy with his first look as a set of knickers, it will be the loader relief.
On a side point, did you replace all of the orings with the correct size, not a gues either but the correct parts. The wrong or damaged orings will also act like a pressure relief valve.
See how you go.

Paul

 

[flax]

Paul Thanks again, you given me lots of tips , if I can't fix it nowI never will ! I will try the rear lift arms .
Your point on the O rings , i did not replace all the O rings with new so a good bet they are half the problem .
ALso I reckon if it's the relief valve it will not be the one on the loader , because the loader was brand new 12 months ago ( Burder) .
Anyway I going to put new O rings on and a new relief valve this weekend ..

Thanks

 

[Tony]

Has the loader always worked poorly with the PTO at 540, since new?

Tony

 

[alan]

Change both the O rings on the riser tube on the pump mounting plate if hydraulic pressure does not reach 160 bar (2350psi) on the remote outlet with 540 PTO engaged with a engine speed of 1000 RPM lift the top cover & change the two O rings on the riser between the top cover & transmisson try pressure test again as above if pressure still not as stated above it will be a faulty pump.

 

[flax]

Tony - the loader has never worked properly on 540 - too slow , when I repalced the pump it worked ok until I put a heavy load on it , then it could not lift very high

Alan -I am replacing all O rings this weekend , I am sure it will be the O rings .........

 

[paul_walpole]

If its a Burder loader, the same as mine I am assuming you are also in OZ.

Wher abouts??