news New Major series on Agro Show Bednary (PL)

Zetor announced an hour ago on Facebook, that they will introduce a Major 80 on the Agro Show Bednary (Poland)

No details known yet, though i expect it to be basic Antar models for the 3rd world market, just with a TIER 3B engine as mandatory in the US and Europe. Or perhaps a new name for the basic Proxima models, to set them apart from the Plus and Power versions.
However there were rumors that it would have a Carraro rear end fitted... ???

...just wait and see

 

[Renze]

A visitor placed this photo on facebook...
As the Polish translated comment said: "it looks like a Polish tractor, not like a Zetor ... They have some fine tuning to do in the styling department"

Does anyone have more info on the specs ? and is that the old UR3 cab with flat windows, or a new design ?

 

[Renze]

I photoshopped my own version, resembling the new Forterra (which is the best looking Zetor in years)

 

[forterra9641]

i tink it was a nice looking little tractor both the original and the altered one it reminds me of the 52 - 7745 range. hope specs and more photos will be posted soon

 

[forterra9641]

has there been no more news of the new major series photos or specs ?

 

[Renze]

I cant find anything. Nothing to confirm the rumors of a 3 cylinder Cat/Perkins, a Carraro rear end, or anything else.

I wonder what the sub 75hp models will get: a 3 or a 4 cylinder. The emission demands are allmost the same in all brackets on the most difficult parts (nitrogen oxides and soot) http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/nonroad.php but i have no idea if a 99hp engine is TIER 4 compliant, if they have to test the 74hp version of the same model family too in that other emission bracket...

 

[zetorfanpl]

Zetor Major 80 has Zetor 1105 engine and Carraro gearbox and rear end

 

[forterra9641]

i cant find anything myself either..... strange.... this should have been more published than it is...

 

[Renze]

Zetor Major 80 has Zetor 1105 engine and Carraro gearbox and rear end

Where did you find that ? Agrofoto.pl ?

Zetor Major 80 - Obrazek, fotka, zdjecie, photo #387575

Zetor Major 80 wgrane w AGRO SHOW 2012: Od tyłu.Te cięgła trochę delikatnie wyglądają... - AgroFoto.pl - Galeria Zdjęć Rolniczych - Galeria rolnicza - agrofoto.pl

www.agrofoto.pl

Zetor Major 80 Nowość - Obrazek, fotka, zdjecie, photo #389291

Zetor Major 80 Nowość wgrane w AGRO SHOW 2012: Zaprezentowana na Agro Show nowość od Zetora - Major 80 Z pozdrowieniami, www.farmexpert.pl - AgroFoto.pl - Galeria Zdjęć Rolniczych - Galeria rolnicza - agrofoto.pl

www.agrofoto.pl

Zetor Major 80 - Obrazek, fotka, zdjecie, photo #389073

Zetor Major 80 wgrane w AGRO SHOW 2012: - AgroFoto.pl - Galeria Zdjęć Rolniczych - Galeria rolnicza - agrofoto.pl

www.agrofoto.pl

Anyways, after 20 years i wont buy one used, if it has a Carraro rear end. JD had lots of problems with them because they were too light for the jobs of a 60-80hp tractor. I'd rather rebuild the 5718 or trade it for a 7011 or 7711 which will be 35 years old by that time.

I think there is only demand for them in "new" EU countries where there are big subsidies on new tractors (not on used ones) Without that subsidy you're better off buying a 5 year old heavy duty Proxima.

If they put that cab on the Antar models, i'd be interested in buying one after 20 years, to replace the 5718. This Carraro rear end has the depreciation already in 10 years, and cracks to pieces after a few trips with the dumptrailer... They could use it for two basic 50 and 60hp models for the US horseowner market though, and then for Europe a 60/70/80hp range based on the Antar models.

i cant find anything myself either..... strange.... this should have been more published than it is...

I think they finally realise its not just a bunch of purists on Zetorworld that think this way... and are reconcidering the plan before sending out press releases...


Short said, i sincerely HOPE that Zetor will not sell this thing in the Western markets, because then they wont sell any Forterra HSX to NEW customers because of the brand image: Putting this next to a Forterra HSX will put the brand image they have gained in the past 10 years, back to square one.

 

[zetorfanpl]

Yes, if You like Polish language there's more data:

 

[funkinalive]

the naming is interesting and may well be a marketing gimmick for central/eastern european countries. i say this because zetors in this area have been nick named MAJOR (pronounced maior) for years all the way back to the early 80's. they better not screw this model up, because its name is attached to a verry sucessful range of tractors in these regions branded 7x45. poorly representing this tractor would damage their reputation in these regions as well, and that will not be a good move. i might add though, that carraro doesnt make just one type of gearbox, we have a case 580k backhoe (about 17 000lbs) which has a "carraro" transmission that has well over 12000hrs on it. whether they use the same design principle in their more modern "agricultural" gearboxes is another thing.

 

[funkinalive]

@zetorfanpl

my polish isnt that good, but i cant seem to find any mention of any carraro componentry in that spec sheet.

 

[forterra9641]

just got word from zetor UK that its zetors own production gearbox and engine

 

[funkinalive]

just got word from zetor UK that its zetors own production gearbox and engine

i highly agree with this, dont see why they would outsource a 12 speed transmission when they already designed their own

 

[Renze]

i highly agree with this, dont see why they would outsource a 12 speed transmission when they already designed their own

Probably because they want to compete in the light duty, low price market against the Polish competitors like Farmer, Pronar etcetera. Its the market in which the price is so low that the tractors can only be very light built, its a market in which Zetor doesnt belong.

 

[forterra9641]

zetor uk said that it would get different specs accordig to wich market it was going to. but if its a zetor all the way through it belongs in every market in my opinion.

 

[Renze]

zetor uk said that it would get different specs accordig to wich market it was going to. but if its a zetor all the way through it belongs in every market in my opinion.

They export 40% of their annual production to Poland, its the most important market for Zetor. Its a new EU country with 40% subsidy on new tractors: that generates a market for very cheap new tractors, that dont have to be durable because people that use them 300hrs a year, now buy a new one and accumulate 6000hrs in 20 years, doing very light duty work because they replace an Ursus C-355. In that market, only the purchase price counts: Price per operating hour is not important because these tractors dont make any hours. Resale value is something these customers dont care for either, because they arent intending to trade it in the next 20 years, they are opportunity buyers because the EU subsidy makes it attractive now.

In that market, the cost price of the heavy duty Zetor rear is maybe too high to compete with the extremely light duty, cheap Carraro rear ends used by Farmer and Farmtrac and the such.

However, in Western markets Zetor still has a brand image of "cheap" at people that do not own a Zetor themself. Even though in the town i live now (i moved last week) there used to be many Fendt 300 series sold, and since Fendt doesnt offer a basic tractor model anymore, more and more Zetors are sold here to replace a Fendt 300 series. Now if Zetor starts selling this Carraro rear end, and people treat it like a REAL Zetor, they will throw away the trust they have gained in the last 10 years, and kill the market potential for more advanced tractors like the HSX.

Deere customers stood loyal to JD after bad experiences with the Carraro built 5000 series and the Renault built 3000 series, the 5000 being just scrap, and the 3000 series being questionable (it was a poor series even to Renault standards) because Deere spends millions in advertisements every year, to keep up their name in public opinion. But Zetor will be held accountable by the public opinion if those Carraro rear ends break....

 

[Renze]

the naming is interesting and may well be a marketing gimmick for central/eastern european countries. i say this because zetors in this area have been nick named MAJOR (pronounced maior) for years all the way back to the early 80's.

The 2011 was nicknamed minor, 3011 was major, 4011 was super. The name Major as a model series designation came here only in 1998 or so, when they introduced the 6340 with the 7341 plastic nose.

i might add though, that carraro doesnt make just one type of gearbox, we have a case 580k backhoe (about 17 000lbs) which has a "carraro" transmission that has well over 12000hrs on it. whether they use the same design principle in their more modern "agricultural" gearboxes is another thing.

Yes, but if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys: Carraro front axles are well regarded all over the world, and they serve the premium market. But in agricultural transmissions, they only serve the light duty economy markets: With these transmissions they serve a market in which purchase price is more important than anything else, and sell these transmissions to India and Poland. I used to drive a Volvo 440, with Renault engine and transmission. None of them lasted 300.000km. Now i drive an S70 with Volkswagen TDI engine, most of these cars have done 500.000km (mine has 350.000km so i will keep it for a loooong time ) Both are Volvos, but the 440 was an entry level model with poorer quality and durability than the 850/S70. A 440 resale value is low, after 10 years there is no demand for export of used 440's and Volvo people dont see it as a "real" volvo.

The 1998 model Major was a heavy duty tractor, just with lower specifications. I agree that a Carraro economy rear end cannot hold a candle against the original Major. Perhaps they should call it the Minor (with 50 and 60hp three cylinder engines) and badge the Antar models with this cab, the Major.

The 2011 was also called the Minor, and this Carraro rear end is exactly the same lightweight as the 2011

 

[funkinalive]

interesting how marketing in different parts of the world works. for as long as i can remember, zetors in Czechoslovakia were nicknamed "major" or "horal" (the latter being special designed for lumber operations) by the farmers that bought them. if the carraro transmissions are as bad as you say, then it will be a tragedy if they put them into their new "major" brand tractors. i also think that the "cheap" brand associated with zetors is also not going to stick around for too long. i would say that they are more competitively priced than their competition, but they are not as cheap (compared to their competitors) than they used to be. for me, this is not an issue and they deserve every penny, so long as they distinguish themselves by keeping that almost military spec design property in whatever they build.

 

[per_ola]

http://www.carrarodrivetech.com/media/u/sheet_en/2011/AG_catalogue_en.pdf

I think there is a carraro 5.5
the lifting force is 2600kg

 

[Renze]

if the carraro transmissions are as bad as you say, then it will be a tragedy if they put them into their new "major" brand tractors.

They arent bad compared to the Indian John Deeres and the Turkish New Hollands... But its a totally different class than the old Major 6340.... Therefor it would be better to sell the Antar models with this cab, as Major, and the Carraro rear ends as Minor. They really are light built, like the 2011 Minor of 1963. That name would give a true impression of what the tractor is capable of. Dubbing them Major would only lead to disappointment

 

[Renze]

Hmm... If the series with Carraro light duty rear ends will be called Minor, the basic UR1 (Antar with that new cab) be called Major, they could call the basic Proxima the Super. It would be less confusing than to have a Proxima 90 that can either be a 30.000 euro 10/2 transmission, or a 42.000 euro 24/24 shuttle transmission....

 

[per_ola]

I dont understand how it can be cheaper for Zetor to buy the gearbox and rear end from carraro than to build their own rear -end and gearbox they already have.
They should build a 3 cylinder version of todays 4,156 liter in the 50-75hp range, fit the proxima 12x12 box and try to reduce the total weight from 3750 to 3000kg.

 

[Renze]

They should build a 3 cylinder version of todays 4,156 liter in the 50-75hp range, fit the proxima 12x12 box and try to reduce the total weight from 3750 to 3000kg.

Exactly my thought. With smaller tires the weight will reduce anyhow, then remove the front weights, use a lighter Carraro front axle, and the cab would be a little lighter too, because there are mechanical controls and less upholstery and instrumentation.

 

[per_ola]

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Donl look as this is a orginal zetor

 

[Renze]

Well, the spin-doctors try hard... But it never will be a Major...

The looks arent great yet, but better now they changed some of the dull gray plastic below the headlights to red and black.

 

[Renze]

ZETOR TRACTORS a.s.

Zetor tractors, service and original spare parts.

www.zetor.com

Zetor put it on their website, which makes it more definate... CEO of Agco corporation Martn Richenhagen said that Agco is also wanting to create a new light duty tractor in the 50-80hp range, not based on existing Valtra or MF designs (though there are plenty of old MF ranges to pick from) but one from scratch: NH and JD already have them. Perhaps Zetor just couldnt miss this boat of a cheap light duty high horsepower tractor in the current market, although its quite a culture shock if you're used to the robustness and durability of the UR1 chassis....

The main difference between the other contenders (soon Agco, Deere, CNH) and Zetor is, that the others are full liners that spend top dollars on advertising and imagebuilding. If Zetor gets into this market in which the price inevitably dictates a lowering of the standard, (which is why they chose a Carraro rear end over the heavy duty UR1 rear end) i dont know if they have enough on the higher end to balance the public opinion...

Just to name man and horse: Carraro says the max rear axle torque of the T5.5 transaxle is 17600Nm or roughly 1760kg/m. Combined with the max loaded tire radius of 700mm, that is 1760/0.7 is 2514kg of drawbar pull. Now when we pull a wheelie when ploughing through hard pan with a three furrow reversible plough, in average traction conditions (friction coefficient 0.6) we should stay under 2514/0.6 is 4190kg weight... So in practice the max axle torque will often be exceeded. which will result in premature wear.

Next to that, Carraro tells the tractor may be ballasted to a total weight of 3820kg, where its own weight is advertised as 3090kg: That leaves only 730kg of load capacity

Conclusion: the margins are thin. A customer that changes a 7245 for one, will be just as disappointed as the people who traded their Deere 1950 or 2250 for a Carraro built 5300 or 5400 10 years ago... Anyways, Zetor advertises it now as a "medium duty" tractor, and larger farmers that need a yard tractor for intensive use, should keep it at a Proxima

 

[zetorfanpl]

It has Carraro T506 transmission

 

[Renze]

So it seems they keep the basic Proxima in production...
i hope there will be plenty of them available on the used market when i buy a used one in 15 years from now..