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news New Zetor 2024 "Series 6" (maybe Forterra) 120-171 hp is coming!

On Zeme Zivitelka fair, Ceske Budejovice, CZ, Zetor has announced to introduce a new tractor model with 120-171hp. Zetor North America says it is the new Forterra , available from third quarter of 2024. What is clear is that it has a completely new cab, but we will follow what details will be publicized in the next week.

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As can be seen, it has a steel sickle above the mudguard, like the Proxima.

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This is because the cabs have been placed higher on Crystal and Forterra to improve operator visibility, which left a bigger gap between tire and mudguard at the back, with the previous cab.

Possibly this allows for more room above the wheels to install the more ergonomic hydraulic control levers of the Proxima in the HSX too.

Other noticeable change is the doors are bigger, the B pillar of the cab is moved roughly 20cm back, and the door hinges are different.

Will this new Forterra have a Deutz TCD 4.1 up to 171hp ? Or will the Forterra be available in both 4 and 6 cylinder like Deutz-Fahr ? We will report as soon as more news comes out...

Because of the current price level of the Forterra, ergonomic or technical flaws are not permissible for Zetor, even at basic spec tractors they require to have their ergonomics (placement and logic of the controls, feel, noise, vibration, harshness) spic and span...

Spotted by Forum member twan hag
This message edited with new information 30-08 9:45pm
 
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Wow, looks real good.
But, when Forterra goes up to 170 HP what is with Crystal?
Du you think, a real Crystal series will come as next? With 180 up to 250 HP?

Last year at German agra in Leipzig, Zetor Germany wispers about a big Zetor with ZF rear end.

I have never understand the Crystal "series" in ther known form. I have ever said a Crystal series with only one model and this gearbox makes no sense with max 170 HP.

Let us see what informations we can find next weeks about this. :)
 
Wow, looks real good.
But, when Forterra goes up to 170 HP what is with Crystal?
Du you think, a real Crystal series will come as next? With 180 up to 250 HP?

Nobody said this was going to be a Forterra. Maybe this new design will become Forterra (classic and HSX) 120-150hp and the long wheelbase Forterra and Crystal HD will become Crystal. After all, the original Crystal came in 4 and 6 cylinder too...

Then a new range with ZF rear end could be called Super, just like the heavy Zetor of the 1950s.... Zetor extended the trademark registration on "Super" at the same time as they registrated Crystal.

Once Zetor has 140-230hp models with ZF and Deutz TCD 6.1, or 230-280hp with FPT NEF67, its good: Bigger tractors arent sold often, and they would be better off buying the 280-360hp range from Versatile because of the low volume. That would make them a full liner in tractors, and attracting new dealers: Farmers buy their main 200hp tractor with modern advancements and need the brand dealer for service of this technology. And then this dealer gets the rest of their business too. So when you cant offer the farms main tractor, the dealer will loose this customer so the dealer decides to ditch Zetor and aquire another dealership contract. Without the 200hp offering the entire sales channel will degrade and collapse.

I have never understand the Crystal "series" in ther known form. I have ever said a Crystal series with only one model and this gearbox makes no sense with max 170 HP.


Let us see what informations we can find next weeks about this. :)

I think it was in 2015 when a (now ex) dealer spoke his mind on Zetorworld, a few weeks later he contacted me and asked if i could put in writing what i have allways been saying out loud, because he would get the Dutch importer plus two guys from the factory over for a meeting.i wrote them that in absence of the Maxterra, Zetor just HAD to make a move into six cylinder territory if they wanted to be taken seriously in the market, because they broke their promise so many times, even if it was a stop-gap measure with a 3 speed powershift transmission... Valtra sold the T series up to 190hp with 3 step powershift too, back then...

This dealers son did not take over his fathers dealership, his brother kept the business and reduced it to park and garden, while he started a John Deere sub-dealership with his mate at a new location. Their company took a huge leap in the past years: Its really a shame that Zetor lost succesful people like this for the Zetor organisation, because they had nothing to offer them, than to finish last in every race.

To be honest, i find both the Forterra HD as well as the Crystal a stop-gap measure because a tractor with a 6 ton rear axle is far from heavy duty (the lightest rear end in this size and weight class is the New Holland T6 with a 7.2 ton rear axle, Deere 6R 185 offers 8.5 and MF 6S offers 9 ton. And buyers who want electric hydraulic controls, at least expect a semi powershift like MF Dyna6, JD DirectDrive or New Holland Dynamic Command.

Although, in the American market there certainly is a place for the Crystal with the current 3 speed powershift transmission, although it definately needs an 8 ton rear axle.
In America they use even 171hp tractors as loader tractor, or planting on the plains, long fields with little shifting.

Anyways, i am very curious to see what they have come up with, either way they have kept this quite secret untill now, unlike the Crystal which was spotted months before introduction.
 
Nobody said this was going to be a Forterra .
Well, 120-172 hp, the sprung Carraro front axle, ... that speaks for me in favor of a major facelift for the Forterra series.
The Forterra (apart from the CL) already has 120 to 147 hp. Maybe a new gearbox + rear axle which allows + 25 hp? :unsure:
The engine cowling looks 1:1 like that of the current Forterra HSX.

In my opinion, a common platform for only part of the Forterra and the two almost identical Crystal models would make even less sense than the Crystal as a separate series already does. ;)

Then a new range with ZF rear end could be called Super, just like the heavy Zetor of the 1950s.... Zetor extended the trademark registration on "Super" at the same time as they registrated Crystal.
The Cystal "series" already makes little sense as a "series" today, because with the well-known gearbox/rear axle it hardly allows more than 170 hp.
Why do you still need the Crystal if the Forterra had more power (only +17% more) and there was a new "Super" series above the Crystal? Excuse me, Renze, but I just wouldn't see any sense in that - neither in marketing nor in the market. ;)

Once Zetor has 140-230hp models with ZF and Deutz TCD 6.1, or 230-280hp with FPT NEF67, its good: Bigger tractors arent sold often, and they would be better off buying the 280-360hp range from Versatile because of the low volume. That would make them a full liner in tractors, and attracting new dealers: Farmers buy their main 200hp tractor with modern advancements and need the brand dealer for service of this technology. And then this dealer gets the rest of their business too. So when you cant offer the farms main tractor, the dealer will loose this customer so the dealer decides to ditch Zetor and aquire another dealership contract. Without the 200hp offering the entire sales channel will degrade and collapse.
Yes - we agree on that. Zetor needs the 200 hp class to keep its customers and dealers. We've been waiting for this step since Maxterra.
But I'm afraid Zetor, just like with the smallest models, just hesitated for far too long and watched the market being divided among other brands (Kubota, Branson, Iseki, etc.).
Unfortunately, the clocks at Zetor run a little slower...

I think it was in 2015 when a (now ex) dealer spoke his mind on Zetorworld, a few weeks later he contacted me and asked if i could put in writing what i have allways been saying out loud, because he would get the Dutch importer plus two guys from the factory over for a meeting.i wrote them that in absence of the Maxterra, Zetor just HAD to make a move into six cylinder territory if they wanted to be taken seriously in the market, because they broke their promise so many times, even if it was a stop-gap measure with a 3 speed powershift transmission... Valtra sold the T series up to 190hp with 3 step powershift too, back then...
100% agree

To be honest, i find both the Forterra HD as well as the Crystal a stop-gap measure because a tractor with a 6 ton rear axle is far from heavy duty (the lightest rear end in this size and weight class is the New Holland T6 with a 7.2 ton rear axle, Deere 6R 185 offers 8.5 and MF 6S offers 9 ton. And buyers who want electric hydraulic controls, at least expect a semi powershift like MF Dyna6, JD DirectDrive or New Holland Dynamic Command.
That's why I think the new models will be Forterra. That would make the most sense to me.
Anyways, i am very curious to see what they have come up with, either way they have kept this quite secret untill now, unlike the Crystal which was spotted months before introduction.
Yes, well, there have been rumors (at trade fairs) - just nothing concrete. What is currently being introduced looks really good at first glance. Let's hope we won't be disappointed. ;)

On Agroportal24h.cz there was news in 05-2022 about new models that were only referred to as "M2023+" and were supposed to go into testing at the end of 2023. Maybe this is now "M2023+"? :unsure:
See also: Новые модели сельскохозяйственной техники Zetor - https://mtz-traktor.com/news/zetor-uvelichivaet-obemy-proizvodstva-i-rabotaet-nad-sozdaniem-novyh-modelej/
 
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More Details please... so let us zoom in and photoshop a little bit.
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In my opinion, a common platform for only part of the Forterra and the two almost identical Crystal models would make even less sense than the Crystal as a separate series already does. ;)

The Cystal "series" already makes little sense as a "series" today, because with the well-known gearbox/rear axle it hardly allows more than 170 hp.
Why do you still need the Crystal if the Forterra had more power (only +17% more) and there was a new "Super" series above the Crystal? Excuse me, Renze, but I just wouldn't see any sense in that - neither in marketing nor in the market. ;)
The gearbox is the same in the Crystal, it does allow 171hp, but the rear axle is severely undersized for the tractor size. Which is a long standing Zetor tradition, with the UR2 the pinion shaft bearing holder broke from the casting and halfshafts broke like matchsticks if you used them for the work a 160hp tractor is expected to do.
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Now the UR3 rear axle is of conventional design (pinion cantilevered from the bearings, instead of bearings on both sides of the bearing, requiring space for a bearing between crown wheel and differential cage) but its still the lightest axle rating in the industry...

Anyways, both Forterra HD and Crystal HD dont make sense... a too light rear axle for the chassis size, and a too limited transmission for the fancy hydraulics. The Crystal is still sold with the old styling, so a new Crystal with ZF rear end in 4 and 6 cylinder choices, replacing both the Forterra HD and Crystal HD would make sense: Alike the Deutz Fahr 6C series.

But then, putting the HSX transmission in the CL with a mechanical shuttle shift to unify the remaining Forterra, also makes more sense than keeping a separate transmission..

That's why I think the new models will be Forterra. That would make the most sense to me.
Indeed, but nobody said Forterra...they said new range 120-171hp. Deutz Fahr offers both 4 and 6 cylinder variants in the 6C series. Though other manufacturers name the 4 and 6 cylinder models different series, like MF 6S and 7S.
On Agroportal24h.cz there was news in 05-2022 about new models that were only referred to as "M2023+" and were supposed to go into testing at the end of 2023. Maybe this is now "M2023+"? :unsure:
See also: Новые модели сельскохозяйственной техники Zetor - https://mtz-traktor.com/news/zetor-uvelichivaet-obemy-proizvodstva-i-rabotaet-nad-sozdaniem-novyh-modelej/
It speaks of negotiations with suppliers. Which could mean anything. With Deutz about engines ? With ZF about transaxles ? Or with Graziano or BorgWarner about friction disks for Zetor built DSG transmissions ?
 
They certainly speak of an entirely new model, not based on existing models, such as the company hasnt produced in 10 years, serial production starting in August.. the HSX came out in 2012 so if they are hinting on a novelty of that magnitude, this is not just a Forterra with new cab, but a Zetor dual clutch, or a ZF CVT transmission...

 
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Anyways, if we look at Deutz, MF and New Holland, (i have no idea if Zetor ever looks at the competition, given what they have introduced in the past 10 years?) and what Zetor already has, and what R&D projects they were granted a subsidy for, described what they were developing, they are most likely introducing a Forterra HD with uprated rear axle, the 3 speed powershift as base transmission, and optionally a newly developed DSG transmission: Just like the compact Deutz Fahr 6C range (with Same transmissions)
This with Deutz TCD 4.1 four cylinders, and a market conform wheelbase of around 2.65m, 650/65R38 rears and 540/65R28 front wheels.

Then a future Crystal should have ZF TMT 16 and TMT 20 transmissions, both powershift and CVT, Deutz TCD 6.1 engine, 2.80m wheelbase, 150-210/230hp staying within longevity limits of the Deutz TCD6.1 and up to the power level where the Deutz 6.215, MF 6S.210 and New Holland T7.225 are in this wheelbase class. On 650/65R42 and 540/65R30 tires. Or Zetor could chose to use the 8 ton rear axle they need anyways for the Forterra, with the DSG gearbox slightly uprated, and just like Deere did, an optional ZF CVT built into a Zetor transmission housing. (Which then off course, also becomes available in the Forterra)

Then a future Super series should have an FPT NEF67 engine (which is slightly more expensive than Deutz but lasts longer at high power output) should cover the 3 meter wheelbase class of NH T7.230, MF 8S.205, Deutz 7.230 and higher, covering 230-270hp with only the ZF S-matic. That is: Only when they have rebuilt the sales network and aquire new professional dealers to sell to the type of customers that buys in this power segment, by gaining foothold in the market with the new Crystal...
Off course Zetor can also choose here, to develop a DSG transmission that is interchangeable with the ZF CVT in front of the ZF rear axle, just like Steyr used a ZF rear axle in front of their own CVT. Both John Deere and MF still offer a serious powershift option in this chassis size, so for Zetor i feel they are expected to have a powershift option too...

Above that, a Maxterra (rebadged Versatile 265 up to 365 in Pininfarina design) for large grain farming in Eastern Europe (the original Versatile design is ugly) Zetor has lost the connection to grain farmers in France and Germany, so i dont expect them to sell very large tractors in Western Europe within the next 10 years...

I dont see a CVT 4 cylinder as a big market (if Fendt still sold the 500 turboshift series, dairy farmers wouldnt have bought the 400 vario at all) and those who insist on CVT are large farmers who also insist on the heavier frame 6 cylinder...

Also, Zetor will not gain respect in the market if they sell a red Deutz Fahr 6 series, or a McCormick X7 with red rims: There must be something Zetor in it. A DSG transmission unique to Zetor would definately be enough to make the new model a Zetor, instead of a component assembly.

Anyways, thats my point of view... i am anxiously waiting for more details on this 120-171hp new range 🤷‍♂️😅
 
Another photo from Instagram: There are two screens suspended in front of the right hand B-pillar and several levers on the right hand console.
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Dr. Photoshop was back... :D ;)
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I hope its a little bit better to see.

But we would need a spy on site who would take pictures in the cabin with the door or rear window open. :D ;)

Another point, by the way, is the Mitas tires. In Germany, these are only reluctantly taken because they have a high level of wear (lugs too narrow, rubber too soft) - currently Zetor Germany probably also assembles the Alliance Agristar II, for example - these are high-speed tires (65 km/h) with wide lugs and with more lugs like Mitas.

When using a front loader, the Mitas on the front axle should be relatively bad, as I said, too much wear.
 
But we would need a spy on site who would take pictures in the cabin with the door or rear window open. :D ;)
You almost live in Czechia, so go ahead 🤣🤣

Another point, by the way, is the Mitas tires. In Germany, these are only reluctantly taken because they have a high level of wear (lugs too narrow, rubber too soft) -

Interesting. Even Claas puts their harvesters on Mitas from the factory... i think Fendt too. Mitas has taken over the Ag tires from Continental.

With wheel loaders, Michelin wore out quite fast on the pavement in Load&carry applications in the harbour, so we put them on Chinese Triangle rubber: very hard and wear resistant if you keep them on 4 bar, lasting twice as long as Michelin. But on the beach on 1.5 bar on loose sand, every other tire make is too stiff, and will run on the sidewalls so that the running surfaces bends up in the middle like a diabolo roller on a potato harvester.... Only Michelin will do, not even Goodyear.
 
You almost live in Czechia, so go ahead 🤣🤣
430 km one way... for me a little bit to much for a photo. :D

Mitas... same with BKT Agrimax RT 855 - good for light weight tractors, but the wrong tyre for front with front loader on a Zetor 9540 eg. (to much wear) but also the wrong in dimension 420/85 R28 on a Zetor 5011/5211 - here the tractor weight is not enough, the tires rub on the road when cornering, whether 1.6 bar or 0.5 bar. The tunnels are too steep.

But that goes a little bit off topic now. :)
 
On latest news , Zetor insiders spoke from new Forterra series (M2023+) and a production start at 3. quarter 2024.
Other sources says august 2024.

So the new series is a 120-171 PS Zetor Forterra series.

Let us see, what a gearbox and rear axle his will have... ;)
 
Yes, mr. Harman from Zetor says, more fokus on things (electronic) like hat.

Next step have to be a new Crystal series with 160 up to 230 PS - I hope so, since Zetor presents the Maxterra years ago.

And in a conversation with Renze just minutes bevore we also came to the conclusion that the Crystal still has the "old" design and is now under pressure from the new Forterra in terms of performance. This literally calls for a relaunch of the Crystal series with more performance and comfort.
 
something that stands out to me.
View attachment 187
this looks a lot like an isobus plug
If you buy a brand new tractor, it's got to have ISO bus... my mate bought a new selfloading forage wagon, and had to order the optional control terminal for an extra price, because none of his tractors have ISO bus... An expense you dont need when you have a universal ISO terminal on the tractor... And a built in ISO bus controller saves you a lot of hassle changeing the terminal whenever you change implement, and putting the cables into the cab in such a way that your rear window still closes shut..
 
Anyways, my ideal scenario:

- Zetor already replaced their Zetor engine in the Proxima with a Deutz TCD 3.6, which means a decrease in production volume of their engine. In the annual report 2018 they already said that the development of the common rail version of their engine was cancelled (MTZ Minsk/Belarus tractors with the Motorpal CR system were all changed in the field for an inline mechanical pump because the CR system was too unreliable) which means Zetor will not just quit developing CR engines, they will quit developing engines altogether.

So Zetor has to re-orientate on the market: A 171hp four cylinder isnt bought by customers who go flat out everyday, so even at 42hp per liter they will be o.k. with Deutz.

But then, how will Zetor be able to stand out from the competition? Deutz Fahr already offers the combination of Deutz engine and ZF rear end, and Landini/McCormick already offers FPT with ZF.
The only way they can remain a product with enough of their own DNA is by offering the finest DSG transmission there is: close ratio, yet with the ability to skip gears by having a conventional 2 speed powershift in front to increase preselection shift speed and adaptability.

Thats why i hope they continued with the DSG transmission they have been experimenting with for 10 years, in combination with an 8.5 ton capacity rear axle. This 8.5 ton rear axle is more or less the standard in the large 4 cylinder class of 130 to 180hp, as well as the compact 6 cylinder class from 160 to 230hp. (MF, Fendt, Deere) John Deere offers a 7 ton rear axle (86mm) in the 110-140hp 6M and 6R, but the HD chassis size needs more... 8.5 ton (91mm) like the 150-200hp 6M series or 10 ton (100mm) in the 6R 175 and bigger, or 9 ton like the MF 6S and 7S series. (You wonder why they even put money in their new 6 ton rear axle 8 years ago ?!) Then its up to the accountants at Zetor to decide whats cheaper: Develop the 6 ton Forterra axle into a 7 ton for the 120-130-140hp models and an 8.5 ton axle for 150-230hp like Deere does with the 6R, or save the money of this development and sell the 120-140hp models with the 8.5 ton axle for the same sales price like MF does...
Their 2x 12 speed functional prototype of a DSG isnt it because it would require a range shift in the middle of field speeds, but its quite close to whats needed if a third range is added.

Then later they can do like Deere 20 years ago, and build a ZF CVT in front of their rear axle.
Then for the heavier range 220-280hp an FPT engine and a ZF rear end: within this class they cant earn money for the next 10 years on any in-house development and i dont really think this market is important for them right now. But in the 120-230hp market that is of key importance for their brand identity and right of existence (and most of all: the right of existence of their dealers) within the market, they just need an in-house developed main product.
Only then, Zetor can quote assassin John Wick in the Crystal advertisements "People keep asking me if i'm back... And i havent really got an answer. But now, yeah! i'm thinking i'm back !!"
 
New material for our rumor mill. ;)

A member (Markus, alias "Zetor_By") of our German site www.zetor-forum.de posted this now:
Spoke to Zetor DE in Karpfarm. Next spring the HD comes out with Deutz engine and ZF transmission 4 gears 6 stages up to 170ps. The Hsx remains with Zetor motor Supposedly. Proxima also gets Deutz. Crystal more or less dies. In 2025 a real hammer should come. Allegedly up to 260 hp, detz motor zf gear load sensing isobus etc.... But wait and see what time brings.
Source: News - Neue Zetor Modellreihe "M2023+" mit 120-171 PS gesichtet - https://www.zetor-forum.de/themen/neue-zetor-modellreihe-m2023-mit-120-171-ps-gesichtet.7679/post-65280

So if so, then a new Zetor Forterra HD will come at early next year and the M2023+ later the year as HSX maybe or talk all from the one new series and it is more available in Europe?

A ZF gearbox seems to be te thruth, Deutz motor and hp area as well.

It remains exciting... :)
 
So, they will sell the HSX with Zetor engine, so at 1/3 of the production volume when Proxima still had a Zetor engine. Off course the cost per unit will go up so it wont be long before they quit that too, or everybody buys a real Deutz Fahr instead of a HD and Zetor realises they can only compete with a component tractor if they drop the price till there is no profit left...

I find it wise to not end Zetor engine production abruptly, because i dont think the market will respond well to a red Deutz Fahr or Crystal Agropoland... This way they can always go back. Or develop their DSG gearbox in combination with that Deutz engine.

I have not seen a single Landini or McCormick with FPT engine and ZF rear end, their market dried up when they stopped using the Case MX rear end... i am afraid Zetor cant sell a component tractor either. The Fendt 600 series was an MWM engine with ZF rear end and front axle too, but they had the fluid clutch as unique selling point, and they had (one of) the best cabs in the industry at that time....

Zetor really has to have their act together if they want to compete with a component tractor...
 
I see it more like this:
Zetor was available “cheaply” for decades and was of decent quality. But that has changed in the last 10 years. Zetor was unable to keep up with the market, lost dealers and therefore support, and lost customers to competitors because they could provide this support.
I don't think it's financially justifiable to produce your own engines in the long run, Renze, I think that's just too expensive for Zetor, it ties up staff and takes up time that you no longer have in a fast-moving market.

Zetor had proven in the "PROFI test" (Crystal) that they could ultimately be competitive even with a Deutz engine, with sometimes better measured values than Deutz itself had.

The advantage of a combination of Deutz (or another manufacturer) and ZF could be that you could make your development work more efficient and reduce costs. Zetor, as an old hand in the market but also an underdog today, desperately needs the latter in order to survive.
I would welcome it if they would invest the freed up capacity and money in more comfort, better usability and quality. I think they still have a chance on the market.
To be honest, at the end of the day it almost didn't matter to me which engine was in the Fendt or CaseIH - as long as it met the performance expectations and didn't break.
For me as a buyer, the service life, the comfort, the features and yes, the design would be more important than a specific component manufacturer. And all of this, of course, with better support than you currently hear.

The Fendt 600 series was an MWM engine with ZF rear end and front axle too, but they had the fluid clutch as unique selling point, and they had (one of) the best cabs in the industry at that time....
Thats what I mean - you also can with components like ZF or Deutz produce a good tractor.
The big advantage of a Deutz engine and ZF transmission would be that you can have the tractor repaired more easily in another workshop without having to rely on a corresponding Zetor workshop. I think this is a not unimportant point given the current dealer network.


How is Zetor supposed to survive on the market with too small a margin for its own engines?
The only thing that would be conceivable for me is a modular system with 3, 4 and 6 cylinder engines with 3.7, 4.9 and 7.4 liter displacement, for example. to then cover a range from 50 to a maximum of 220 HP. Major, Proxima, Forterra and the “smaller” Crystal could use the kit. For the very smaller models and the larger ones with 220-300 hp, you would probably need a 6-cylinder engine with a displacement of more than 8 liters in order to do without expensive bells and whistles such as bi-turbo.

hmm...
Maybe it would even be advisable to forgo your own gearboxes instead of the engines. As long as you don't have any unique selling points, in my opinion, your own gearboxes make even less sense than your own engines. ;)
 
Maybe it would even be advisable to forgo your own gearboxes instead of the engines. As long as you don't have any unique selling points, in my opinion, your own gearboxes make even less sense than your own engines. ;)
Thats more or less my point: They can drop engines or they can drop transmissions, but not both only half. Dropping 2/3 of the engine production by going Deutz with Major and Proxima makes the Forterra HSX engine economically unfeasible. Production numbers will just drop too low to break even.

And next to that, the product need to stand out in the market. That can be because of an in house developed engine, or transmission. Fendt did it with the 600 series by having their cab ergonomics tip top, but Zetor really has a long way coming if ergonomics should become their unique selling point... We no longer live in the 80s, all the competition has its ergonomics in order nowadays...

And beating Deutz-Fahr on fuel consumption isnt hard: Put that TCD 6.1 in a Major and it will have even less driveline loss. Just dont ask how long the rear end will last then... the Crystal has little driveline friction because its undersized for the HP
 
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How is Zetor supposed to survive on the market with too small a margin for its own engines?
Do they ?

What i dont understand is that they invested a lot in 16V heads and Stage 5 emissions, and now they have achieved the last emission hurdle, they quit... I mean you cannot set up a new plant for 3000 engines a year, but what they have is money already spent and every engine they build is return on this investment... They have had CR engines on the testbench for years, they built functional test models of a DSG transmission for years... And now 13 years later we're still going to build a Maxterra with only German components? What a defeatist attitude ! Valmet had the 905 as biggest model in 1989 and had MF build bigger models for them, untill they could develop them themself... they built a solid reputation between purchasing Volvo BM, and being bought by Agco...

I find it more logical to put Bosch CR on the Zetor engine to capitalise on investments made in the past, but i understand Brno never produced a six cylinder (the Crystal 6 pot was built in Martin) so therefor it would be more logical to utilise the foundry, stamping plant and machining plant to build rear ends. Especially because rear ends will stay even if diesel engines become hydrogen fueled.

The only thing that would be conceivable for me is a modular system with 3, 4 and 6 cylinder engines with 3.7, 4.9 and 7.4 liter displacement, for example. to then cover a range from 50 to a maximum of 220 HP. Major, Proxima, Forterra and the “smaller” Crystal could use the kit. For the very smaller models and the larger ones with 220-300 hp, you would probably need a 6-cylinder engine with a displacement of more than 8 liters in order to do without expensive bells and whistles such as bi-turbo.

FPT sells the NEF 67 with 286hp on a single turbo with waste gate. The absence of EGR works wonders on the engine, but you need CR in order to keep NoX in check without EGR. It lasts too, where the Deutz TCD6.1 with twin turbos and 286hp needs a rebuild every 5000hrs in heavy use. (Deutz gave Fendt a good reason to abandon that German engine they swore their customers to keep, and use an in house Agcopower engine)

Zetor has to work with what they have, developing an all new engine family is out of the question. so i would think of Common Rail 3.1 liter 3 cylinder up to 120hp in Major and Proxima, the 4 cylinder 4.2 liter up to 155hp in the Forterra and the 6 cylinder up to 240hp in the Crystal. I would also unify the Forterra range by stripping the 3rd powershift step and the powershuttle from the HSX to be used in the CL. This way they can upscale the production batches for castings, gears, shafts, as well as sheetmetal, piping, front driveshaft, for the Forterra. With a 7 ton rear axle, this rear end could be sold to Agrale in Brazil or as whole tractor to Africa or as assembly kit to Antar. Just a bare tractor without electronic control, like ZF sells to Brazil too.

I mean, SDF isnt that big either, yet they decided to restart their own engine production for Stage 3B when the tumult in the market, created by quickly succeeding emission standards, stabilised...

Zetor already threw away a lot of assets by not offering a tractor that would keep dealers aboard 15 years ago, if they throw away an engine or a transmission every couple of years too, soon they will be like the Polish assembly shops that went bankrupt in the past few years: Using expensive components but not having any brand status, so you have to compete with Deutz Fahr on price, making profit margins paper thin.. Even when the accountants are right, a customer wants brand recognition too !
 
I see this mainly from a German perspective - here you hardly have any workshops that are familiar with real Zetor components. Many Zetor workshops are more like garden tool dealers.

I also don't like to see Zetor install a Deutz. But realistically, you also have to keep an eye on the service network. We have a workforce (shortage of skilled workers) in Germany and fewer and fewer people want to get their hands dirty while working. As a result, further training costs time and money.
If I install brands that are well-known on the market, you have more synergy effects for the workshops and it gives dealers and workshops the opportunity to reduce costs.

How many dealers only make Zetor? ;)
Most will have at least a second brand in their range.

Of course I would like to see a Maxterra with a 6-cylinder Zetor engine and Zetor DSG - but that doesn't seem too realistic to me at the moment - unfortunately.

In the end, unfortunately, you have to say - no matter how animatedly we discuss it, Zetor does what Zetor wants and unfortunately, in the future too, it will only rarely respond to customer requests and if so, it will be very delayed. Perhaps this would be a point that Zetor should address promptly: service, service network and customer communication.
 
I see that meanwhile Zetor gives 6500kg rear axle rating on the Crystal: I think it is an 85mm axle, where Deere allows 7000kg on an 86mm so they might still be a bit conservative in their rating.
Anyways, 6500kg is fine for the HSX 140. 150hp and up, needs a bigger axle.

I also don't like to see Zetor install a Deutz. But realistically, you also have to keep an eye on the service network. We have a workforce (shortage of skilled workers) in Germany and fewer and fewer people want to get their hands dirty while working. As a result, further training costs time and money.
If I install brands that are well-known on the market, you have more synergy effects for the workshops and it gives dealers and workshops the opportunity to reduce costs.
My brother in laws younger brother worked for a Case dealership: When there was a problem with a Case CVX (in the time before New Holland made their own and the ZF-Steyr CVX was still a fairly new tractor) a ZF specialist came to assist in the repair. Even large dealers didnt have the specific knowledge untill they learned the tricks from ZF service technicians and they had CVX gearboxes opened more often.

So, the argument that ZF is more familiar is not really valid when dealers call in the local ZF service point. In wheel loader transmissions, ZF Netherlands could rebuild transmissions, they would change every single part because they werent really sure about themself. But we could do it much cheaper and even rebuilt ZF transmissions for JCB dealers because we only replaced what was broken, or worn more than 25% (which was usually just two or three parts) which would make it run for another 10 to 20.000hrs.

Zetor importers need those specialists too, to assist dealers. Not just the garden dealerships they are left with, but also the professional dealerships that they have lost in the past 20 years. One of Zetors largest dealers in Holland was also hired by other dealers to repair transmissions. They even repaired a 10540 transmission shipped to and from Holland, from a Canadian customer because local dealers were clueless ! This dealer is now no longer Zetor.

Maybe Zetor needs a remanufacturing scheme like John Deere or Fendt. Send the box to Czechia for rebuild. As in the wheel loader transmission example, companies that do it once a month can do it way faster and efficient than a shop who isnt sure of what they are doing and therefor replaces every part as a precaution.

How many dealers only make Zetor? ;)
Most will have at least a second brand in their range.
Here ? All of them. Those who had Zetor as a second brand, let go when all the major manufacturers started to build economy tractors.

Those who had Zetor as a first brand (and sold a new tractor every week in the 80s), well Zetor has left them on their own, so they also gave in to the pressure of the larger brand who wants exclusivity from their dealers. Zetor was not worth risking to loose their other dealership over, when Zetor only has a basic product offering up to 140hp.

Nonetheless, the Crystal Agropoland 260 was as expensive as a Magnum MX270, and 20.000 Euro cheaper than a Deutz Agrotron 260 with the same components. Therefor it was unable to compete in the market.

Therefor i am afraid that a Zetor with only German components will have the same problem... When compared to a Deutz Fahr, the customer gladly pays 20.000 euro more for the better resale value and better dealer of Deutz, or the better resale value and better service from the Magnum for the same price.
I am afraid that ZF takes the profit while Zetor makes the struggle...

Zetor has no machining centers to machine six pot blocks, that line was set up in ZTS Martin in the 70s. So going for Deutz engines and stopping engine development entirely, i get that. But i am afraid that with a component tractor, all profit goes to ZF (they know damn well that they are the only independent OEM supplier in the market) while Zetor has a foundry and a machining hall for rear ends, with way more capacity than the 3000 tractors they build nowadays. The bottom line for the Zetor production facility will degrade too, the more they buy from elsewhere. In order to make Proxima and Forterra production more profitable, they need more turnover, buy steel ingots for the foundry in larger batches for less money, operate the machining centers in two or three shifts instead of just the day shift, just create economy of scale.

They could also cooperate with ZF on transmissions, like Fendt did with the Favorit 500 series: They bought powershuttle and powershift modules and electronic control units from ZF, and produced the gears, castings and rear axles themself.

Even just license building the rear ends in Brno is an option, create critical mass for the purchase department, so that their own production (Proxima, Forterra) becomes more profitable.

If they really want to be cool they co-develop with ZF, and ZF starts to sell their own version to OEM customers after a year so Zetor has the premiere. Although i believe ZF created this 6F/3R powershift in order to get people to buy a CVT instead, they cant match Deeres DirectDrive or Case Octoshift. A 30 speed close ratio Zetor DSG would instead diminish demand for a CVT option, so i dont know if ZF is even interested in a DSG that eats into CVT sales...

What i envision is 5 DSG gears with a two speed powershift in front, for instant gear change when the load changes suddenly: Where Deeres DirectDrive stalls when you take a run before climbing the silo with a heavy trailer and the engine lugs down when it starts to climb the heap because the computer expects acceleration and preselected the next higher gear, this variant would first shift down the powershift which signals the DSG to immediately preselect the next lower DSG gear, giving way more time to predict and preselect a next DSG gear.
This would have 60kmh top speed (or 50 at reduced engine speed) and gear spacing of 1.156 like the Forterra powershift, so with 10 speeds you get 15.5 to 60kmh speeds in high range. Then we start middle range at 21kmh, overlapping 3 speeds with high range. 10 speeds down covers 5.7 to 21kmh, covering all cultivating, ploughing mowing and baling, and most important: Allowing you to take off with a heavy silage trailer on a hill with all four wheels spinning without the engine stalling, like the Forterra does.. (you dont want to pull out into the road from the field in low range, then change ranges at standstill in the middle of traffic. Or drive all the way to the road in low range because middle range starts too high to take off in, in a muddy field, which was a problem with MF's original Dynashift) Then in low range we start with 7.5kmh, again 3 speeds overlap with middle range, giving speeds from 2 to 7.5kmh for all PTO driven harrows.
When the customer wants super crawl gears for deep spading machines and other specialty jobs, offer a crawl group with speeds of 2.7 to .7kmh.

In my lifetime i have never used a lower gear than low range 3rd on a UR1 with a 3 meter rotary harrow, which is about 2.3kmh with 60hp on a 3 meter harrow... I went so slow because i had no more power, (1000rpm rotavator driven at 540rpm) and at this point, there was no difference in power consumption between 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear low range so i worked in 3rd. So 2kmh is slow enough for 99% of all agricultural uses, and civil contractors who want slower, e.g. with forest choppers, would want CVT and dont buy Zetor either, Zetor doesnt have to invest in this niche. So 3 ranges from 2 to 60kmh with 3 speeds overlap between ranges suits the bill for 99.9% of customers.

If a crawl gear is fitted, one can also create the field range from 3 to 11kmh which allows for decent headland speed when turning on the headland whilst power harrowing. Then the crawl range would stretch from 1 to 4kmh..
 
Anyways, Zetor Polska is preparing Agro Show Bednary, and the new model will be shown there too:
FB_IMG_1695456156992.jpg
Photographed partially from the side so we cannot tell the rear end by the axle tubes or the 3pt lift external cylinders, which would identify ZF or existing Forterra . We do see a lot of hydraulic piping on the back.. For service accessibility this is a good spot for the external hydraulic valves.

Also the notch in the rear windshield, i only see it on the right, so either i see it wrong, or this notch is intended as a cable throughput for implement control boxes and the such, in a pre-cut foam rubber block.
 
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Another photo from Zetor Poland: You can see this is a substantially heavier rear axle, look at those planetaries !! Even though the ring gear does not look wider than a Forterra , the diameter is huge. Whether it is a ZF rear end i am about 95% sure, though i dont see the external lift cylinders which are common on ZF supplied transaxles. However the PTO stub bolted to a flange, is a typical ZF trait...

The notch in the lower right corner of the rear window, seems to follow the height of the right hand control console though, and not have foam rubber cable throughput blocks.
 
Yes, the stub looks mounted in a similar way to how I know it from ZF transmissions.

But what still surprises me:
still no official news about this new series, hardly any news on news portals or other forums.
Why doesn't Zetor use the new model for more advertising or do they only want to "officially" present it at a larger trade fair and are therefore holding back on making news?
 
New photo from inside the new Zetor Forterra Series (finally ;) ) from Marko Jelić from our Facebook site:
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Source:
View: https://www.facebook.com/groups/zetorworld/permalink/2511698502324678/

To me, the interior design doesn't look finished yet (I hope so) but it does allow for new speculation about the gearbox used. :unsure:

The notch in the lower right corner of the rear window, seems to follow the height of the right hand control console though, and not have foam rubber cable throughput blocks.
1695541409955.png
I see it - you not? ;)

I reuploaded a more sharp version of the photo in your posting - so its better to see. :)

though i dont see the external lift cylinders which are common on ZF supplied transaxles.
1695541677412.png
Its a ZF gear box, the external lift cylinders are to see when you zoom in. :cool:
 
New photo from inside the new Zetor Forterra Series (finally ;) ) from Marko Jelić from our Facebook site:
View attachment 380
Screenshot_20230924-114839_Facebook.jpg

We see four external remotes, tucked away nicely.

Also the joystick known from the Forterra HD.
I can only speak for dairy farms, but here, people only need two electrohydraulic functions on the joystick: one controlling the front 3pt lift to lift the mower (front-back) and one to control the rear mower folding (left-right) when you have a fully floating front mower, the joystick should control the cylinders that pull the mower up from the float springs.

The slurry tank with applicator has its own electric control box and the self loading silage wagon too. Even the rake has (although raking isnt a job for a brand new 170hp tractor, there are a couple of 60-70hp tractors around that do it cheaper)

About arable farming, i couldnt tell their tractor needs, apart from more axle carrying capacity to carry rotor harrow and seeder/planter combinations. Maybe some headland management that starts the PTO as soon as you drop the front lift, then drops the rear lift and starts the rear PTO too, i dont know, in my area we dont have heavy soils and we dont sow crops with fine seeds, so nobody seeds with two power harrows here...

Anyways, the poster of this video says the cab wasnt done yet, they 3D printed the panels just to be able to show a mockup on the fair. So if Zetor goes with Deutz and ZF, (with the sales price that goes with that) the only thing they could create a competitive edge with, is unfinished... 🤷‍♂️
 
Video? Can you share the link? :)
 

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