news NEW Zetor 6170 "Series 6" (former Forterra/Crystal) 130-171 hp

On Zeme Zivitelka fair, Ceske Budejovice, CZ, Zetor has announced to introduce a new tractor model with 120-171hp. Zetor North America says it is the new Forterra , available from third quarter of 2024. What is clear is that it has a completely new cab, but we will follow what details will be publicized in the next week.



As can be seen, it has a steel sickle above the mudguard, like the Proxima.



This is because the cabs have been placed higher on Crystal and Forterra to improve operator visibility, which left a bigger gap between tire and mudguard at the back, with the previous cab.

Possibly this allows for more room above the wheels to install the more ergonomic hydraulic control levers of the Proxima in the HSX too.

Other noticeable change is the doors are bigger, the B pillar of the cab is moved roughly 20cm back, and the door hinges are different.

Will this new Forterra have a Deutz TCD 4.1 up to 171hp ? Or will the Forterra be available in both 4 and 6 cylinder like Deutz-Fahr ? We will report as soon as more news comes out...

Because of the current price level of the Forterra, ergonomic or technical flaws are not permissible for Zetor, even at basic spec tractors they require to have their ergonomics (placement and logic of the controls, feel, noise, vibration, harshness) spic and span...

Spotted by Forum member twan hag
This message edited with new information 30-08 9:45pm

 

[Renze]

Interior definately looks good too.

According to the sticker, front 3pt lift on the joystick, plus one extra remote (to lift the rear mower) which is perfect.

Buttons on the joystick for a 3rd function in case of a frontloader?

More electrohydraulic functions are not needed, but four additional mechanical spools for a total of 6 (plus frontlift) are quite a lot. Two mechanical spools (plus an electrohydraulic) on the back, is enough in base spec.

It does need more mounting rail for control terminals of e.g. the slurry tanker, the tire inflation system controller, etcetera.

My friend very likes the Puma mountng bracket, it is fast to install terminals.

84340967 | Monitor Bracket Assembly - 660 mm L x 269 mm H | Case IH | MyCNH GB Store

Case IH - Monitor Bracket Assembly - 660 mm L x 269 mm H #84340967 Bracket Assembly #84

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Look at 2:35 how full the monitor rack is with a Rapide 660 behind it:

View: https://youtu.be/5Xyr17rShRI?si=tfiPNuF7pqDn5Pvz

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[Joachim]

New video from Switzerland with some more infos about the new series 6 models and both variants called basic and highliner.


View: https://youtu.be/3kLxcYvJVPM?si=Ox3jtsFl46dSo-6u

 

[ludvig]

Video from swedish tractor magazine on the new Zetor . Looks like a nice tractor in my opinion.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jimkJJ2UA

 

[diyfarmer]

Video from swedish tractor magazine

That's a great video. I can't believe though, that there are only 150 people working in factory and most of them work in an office.

 

[ludvig]

That's a great video. I can't believe though, that there are only 150 people working in factory and most of them work in an office.

Yeah, seems like very few people if they're gonna try and make 1000 tractors a year but I have no idea how many they need for producing them either, especially if they're not making engines/transmissions themselves there will be less work I guess.

It is sad that they won't build their own engines and transmissions anymore, the only Zetor I have driven is my 5718 so it doesn't bear much resemblence to the newer ones I guess but it is a very nice and well built tractor in my opinion for it's age, and I assume the newer ones are too but I haven't really seen any new ones since we don't have a dealership here for them anymore. But if they have produced too few tractors to allow them to build their own transmissions and engines economically it makes sense.

I see people compare it to Deutz-Fahr which if they have the same transmission and engine I understand but software can make a very big difference to how everything feels to drive on new tractors even if they have same transmission. But I haven't driven a Deutz either.

I like how the cab looks on this tractor, interior looks very nice.

 

[Renze]

That's a great video. I can't believe though, that there are only 150 people working in factory and most of them work in an office.

They are selling Proxima and Forterra from stock. Only some Majors are produced. Off course scrapping the foundry, press shop, machining shop means they have too much personell.

Plenty of agri companies have gone bankrupt last year, because during Covid not enough was produced but milk and grain prices were good, so machine builders rushed to upscale production to meet expected demand. Then, as a reaction on ECB stimulus packages (printing more money) we had big inflation in Europe so the ECB increased interest rates, making financing of new machines much more expensive: Then the market slumped and companies had their liquid means tied up in unsold stock.

The Forterra wasnt competitive, NH sold a better equipped tractor than a HSX for similar money, when Zetor introduced the HSX.

Its still a shame that they cancelled the Proxima, it was price competitive and the most sold model. How refined the recent generation was, i dont know. The 2008 model was rough on the shuttle..

 

[Renze]

Video from swedish tractor magazine on the new Zetor . Looks like a nice tractor in my opinion.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jimkJJ2UA

So, they make an R5 up to 140hp, did i hear that right ?

Would that be the new Carraro T135 or the ZF TPT14 ?
Deutz TCD 3.6 goes 93 up to 143hp in agri spec.. though this TPT14 would make the R5 HD replace both the Proxima HS as the Forterra HS, and the CL and GP could use the Carraro T100 and T120 for 90-120hp...

It would make the R5 HD go head to head against the MF 5S or NH T5.140 or Deere 5M 140... it makes sense. Though it has the 4.5 liter engine and 2.5m wheelbase of the Forterra in all of these competitors... Just the NH T5 90-120hp models with simpler transmissions have an FPT 3.4 liter, similar to the Deutz TCD3.6 in the current Proxima.. Deutz Fahr is the only brand using the TCD 3.6 up to 143hp, Fendt or Claas never used it.

Deutz-Fahr 6115 C – 6135 C (2022-) – Konedata

konedata.net

This seems logical as the Proxima HS class has also grown 10-13cm in wheelbase and 20hp power, which is now Forterra HSX... The Proxima and Forterra HSX have become almost the same... and 90hp with more than 2 powershifts, nobody offers anymore... Case Vestrum uses the ZF TPT11 of 100 to 117hp with a 2.40 wheelbase, alike the previous generation Proxima, yet that market is small.

....so, if you ask me: R6 will replace Forterra HD and Crystal, R5 HD with 2.50m wheelbase TCD3.6 and TPT14 will replace Proxima HS and Forterra HS,
R5 with 2.40 wheelbase with TCD3.6 and Carraro T120 will replace Proxima GP and Proxima CL 90-120hp,
R4 with 225 wheelbase will continue Major CL and HS as basic 65 and 75hp economy models

Zetor heeft grote plannen: volgend jaar 200 pk trekker

Volgens de berichten zal Zetor dit jaar nog de nieuwe 5-serie introduceren die de Proxima-trekkers moet vervangen. De fabrikant hoopt deze serie al...

www.mechaman.nl

R5 presented on Bednar show in September
R4 (Major replacement) to be expected next year, as well as R7 up to 200hp.

Now they have developed the R6 with Deutz TCD4.1 and ZF TPT16, they can tell Deutz and ZF exactly what they want for the R5 HD with TCD3.6 and TPT140, and R7 with TCD6.1 and TPT20... The biggest R&D unknowns have been solved already

R5 CL and HS are similar to the Major transmissions and Proxima engine... R4 doesnt need changes from the Major, just an added 65hp model.

....anyways.... R5 or R6 or R7 means chassis size, not that its a different family of technology... If you ask me, they can all be TCD3.6/4.1/6.1 with TPT14/16/20... which explains their quite fast introduction planning...

Then, when they introduce R5 Carraro versions remains to be seen, but they have used the components already in Proxima and Major...

Then, they have their ergonomics in R5/6/7 in order (the main selling point in todays market) and a competitive program up to 200hp... Then, companies will be eager to become Zetor dealers again !

It looks like somebody has been thinking in Brno !

 

[ludvig]

Yes, that is what they said.

If they're going to use Deutz engines for bigger tractors let's hope they don't put too much horsepower in them, I know some bigger Fendts doesn't last long before they need new engines. 4 cylinders and the 6 cylinders with less horsepower I think are very reliable though.

 

[Renze]

If they're going to use Deutz engines for bigger tractors let's hope they don't put too much horsepower in them, I know some bigger Fendts doesn't last long before they need new engines. 4 cylinders and the 6 cylinders with less horsepower I think are very reliable though.

The single turbo models seem to be OK, meaning TCD6.1 at 246hp peak. TTCD6.1 and TTCD7.8 are indeed trouble. There is just not enough steel in the blocks to make them.stiff: the Cummins 6.7 was 150kg heavier than the 5.9 and it showed in high power applications...

So, with the TPT20 transaxle max 215hp, they have no problem with the Deutz engine, even with 240hp PTO boost...
A large frame, 3m wheelbase tractor with the TPT25 and TMT25/32 should then have an FPT NEF6.7 of 230-260-300-340hp with the two smallest available as powershift
(Unless there is a printing error in the ZF leaflet and the TPT28 has a top speed of 40kmh too, then the 300hp model can have a powershift option too..)

 

[ludvig]

The single turbo models seem to be OK, meaning TCD6.1 at 246hp peak. TTCD6.1 and TTCD7.8 are indeed trouble. There is just not enough steel in the blocks to make them.stiff: the Cummins 6.7 was 150kg heavier than the 5.9 and it showed in high power applications...

So, with the TPT20 transaxle max 215hp, they have no problem with the Deutz engine...
Even with the TMT 25 CVT transaxle in an R6240 they will be allright. A large frame tractor should then have an FPT NEF6.7 of 240-340hp

Yep, Sisu is also a good engine but I don't know if they're more expensive than FPT. But as you said definitely not a twin turbo deutz.

 

[ridge]

Yes, that is what they said.

If they're going to use Deutz engines for bigger tractors let's hope they don't put too much horsepower in them, I know some bigger Fendts doesn't last long before they need new engines. 4 cylinders and the 6 cylinders with less horsepower I think are very reliable though.

Fendt 800 series with deutz engines have a reputation for replacement engines I'm told.

 

[ludvig]

Then, they have their ergonomics in R5/6/7 in order (the main selling point in todays market) and a competitive program up to 200hp...

From what I've seen of the videos and pictures of the R6 I think the cab actually looks quite nice, I've never seen a very new zetor here as I said but looking from pictures on older models (Forterra ) the hydraulic levers seem a bit awkward and some other things which seem better in the new tractor so that looks better already. Although it's hard to judge whether it is nice and comfortable without having sat in the cab and driven either.

I think cab and comfort are probably some of the larger selling points today as you say, many manufacturers share components and are similar so that's where they have to stick out.

Fendt 800 series with deutz engines have a reputation for replacement engines I'm told.

Yep, same as I've heard. Must be the reason why they chose Sisu for the new 700 series I imagine.

 

[Renze]

Fendt 800 series with deutz engines have a reputation for replacement engines I'm told.

Yes, they had the twin turbo TTCD6.1 with a lifespan of 5000hrs between overhauls in heavy use.... Same as 936 and 939...
A local contractor who keeps his tractors way over 10.000hrs, the dealer didnt want to sell him the 826 with 7000hrs... he found him a 927 instead.

 

[ludvig]

I've heard of some only lasting about 2000-3000 hours even

 

[Renze]

I've heard of some only lasting about 2000-3000 hours even

Deutz solved that problem, so nowadays they last 5000 hours

 

[ludvig]

Great improvement let's just hope they choose a better engine for when they get to building such large tractors

 

[ridge]

I've heard of some only lasting about 2000-3000 hours even

Instead of an oil and filter change, they change the engines
Was told of one that's on its third engine.

 

[Renze]

Instead of an oil and filter change, they change the engines
Was told of one that's on its third engine.

A guy i know, has bought a Puma 260 with 300hp boost. He runs a wood chipper all day, or a forest mulcher: It does not do light mixed work at all, only full power.
If his Puma makes it over 10.000hrs these are good engines. Ive heard of Steyr Terrus 300hp with 13.000hrs, but if it did road transport most of the time, its not that impressive...

 

[ridge]

Was talking to a mechanic who works in a John deere dealership a couple of days ago. He said that it's crucial to do full service for 6r250 at 500hrs on the dot, not just an oil change, otherwise your asking for trouble. They are doing a full engine rebuild in them nearly every month.

 

[Renze]

... it's crucial to do full service for 6r250 at 500hrs on the dot, not just an oil change, otherwise your asking for trouble. They are doing a full engine rebuild in them nearly every month.

6R 250 is an EGR engine, it eats its own shit. Plus it increases piston pressure at the same power.
Same as the Deutz. For Tier 4 interim, Deere put 30% exhaust gas back in the cylinder: if 30% of 6.8 liter is occupied by recirculated exhaust gas, the same amount of fresh air is used as a 5.23 liter engine... Can you imagine 5.23 liter and 300hp max ?

The only engines that lasts in heavy use at 50hp per liter is an EGR free FPT or Scania engine.

Oh, and by the way: Someone i know had a Fendt 818 with 5.7 liter Deutz. He never kept the 500hr oil change interval, he changed oil every 250 hours because when checking oil level, the dipstick became too black for his liking... he had it tuned to 200 hp PTO and did 13.000 hrs with it, before it was detuned to stock and sold to a nearby farmer..

500-600 or even 1000 hour oil change intervals are fairy tales, especially in EGR engines.

 

[Renze]

I think cab and comfort are probably some of the larger selling points today as you say, many manufacturers share components and are similar so that's where they have to stick out.

My mate bought a Puma 180 last year. He already says the S-matic in the 1145 and 170 is nicer, you dont notice range shifts, it accelerates smoothly. Though you notice three range shifts in the Puma, allmost like a powershift transmission... The older S-matic has more transmission noise but overall operates smoother.

This means that (if this is not a software glitch in the first version of the CNH CVT but a structural design flaw still in current CVX), if Zetor comes out with a ZF CVT (TMT16 formerly Eccom 1.5, or TMT20 formerly S-matic 180) in the next three years, it will have an edge over the New Holland AutoCommand and Case CVX...

 

[ludvig]

Yes, they definitely need a CVT model as that will probably also be popular and many get CVT tractors.

I don't have too good of knowledge on Case's cvt, I've for a very short time driven an older puma and a newer one, newer one feels much nicer transmission wise, but as I said was for a very short time I drove either.

I think a lot with modern transmissions is also software, 2 tractors can have the same transmission and feel very different to drive. Although of course how they've designed them is most important.

 

[Renze]

I don't have too good of knowledge on Case's cvt, I've for a very short time driven an older puma and a newer one, newer one feels much nicer transmission wise,

I dont drive them enough, but my mate has 6000hrs on them. When i dont like something, its because i dont know how to adjust them

I think a lot with modern transmissions is also software, 2 tractors can have the same transmission and feel very different to drive. Although of course how they've designed them is most important.

That means Zetor should build a CVT prototype as soon as the R6 is in the field so it goes unnoticed by the press, to get real world experience. Then, operators can tell if they get used to it, or that it really needs change. Today tractors are so complicated that you cant say what works after a week of use. If its a good design, you are used to it after a month.

 

[Renze]

Anyways. How i would do it:
R1: R124 the lawnmower with frontloader
R2: R220/R225/R226 the compact tractors
R3: that Korean TYM tractor they sell in America (or a Deutz TD2.3 and a T50 transmission)
R4 Major as is. TCD2.9, T80 rear end, 2.25 wheelbase, 65 and 75 hp, Koja cab, 16.9R30 tires
R5 CL and HS, TCD3.6, T100/T120 rear end, 2.40 wheelbase, 90-120hp, Zetor luxury cab, 540/65RR34 tires
R5 HD TCD3.6, TPT14 rear end, 2.50 wheelbase, 110-143hp, 600/65R38 tires
R6 TCD4.1, TPT16 rear end, 2.65 wheelbase, 130-171hp, 650/65R38 tires
R7 TCD6.1, TPT20 rear end, 2.80 wheelbase, 171-190-215hp and 235hp PTO boost on the biggest model, 650/65R42 tires
R8 NEF67, TPT25-28/TMT25-27-32 rear end, 3.00 wheelbase, 230-260-300-340hp, 710/75R38 tires

Lets be honest: HTC did nothing (or at least not enough) to keep the brand future proof from 2002 to 2022...

So lets cheer when they finally realize what they have got, and what they risk to loose, even when its death or glory
From a distance (only photos) i think their new cab has the potential to turn around the brand