16145 wont stay in second

[chixnfix]

help ! I have a 16145 that wont stay in second, as soon as u let out the clutch it jumps out, stays in with reverse on level ground. I am going tomorrow to get one that came out of an 8011. what potential problems can come from this. is this a reliable gearbox?

 

[Renze]

The synchro box was known for it, you need to put it in gear carefull, especially 2nd when you take off. The modifications after 1981 when ZTS took over the production and development of the UR2 range, werent engineered nor tested properly due to lack of experience and funds.

 

[chixnfix]

i brought home a four speed box from a 8011 today, were these more reliable?, or am i likely to have problems with this one? The tractor wont be worked hard and my dad and brother will be the only other operators. It will mostly be used for baling and moving hay.

 

[Renze]

the 8011 box was good, though they put different layshaft gears in the 140 and 160hp models to give 30% more torque capacity. Even without that, there is a big reserve as i know several guys that take 170-200 PTO hp from these boxes, so a 8011 box with 160hp in front of it, would be stressed as much as a 16045 box with 230 engine hp in front of it.

The 8011 non synchro gearbox is the most reliable UR2 gearbox.

 

[corundal]

The 16045 had first gear deleted. Somewhere on this site is an explanation that the 16045 could damage its differential so they dropped first. It might be safer to not use first in the 8011 box for any hard pulling. The box in the 12045 doesn't seem to give any problems.

 

[chixnfix]

thanks for the info. next, is there a way to determine if this is a non-synchro bow without opening it? Also, i think mine is the 25kph, and how would i determine if the 8011 box is the 30kph or the 35 kph?

 

[corundal]

I've only had the 12045 for six months, I've only had a smaller Zetor before, so I'm learning too. Australian 8011's had the slower diff - the speeds were always on a sticker on the windscreen.

 

[Renze]

thanks for the info. next, is there a way to determine if this is a non-synchro bow without opening it? Also, i think mine is the 25kph, and how would i determine if the 8011 box is the 30kph or the 35 kph?

8011 boxes were all non-synchro: synchro and 40kmh overdrive were introduced on the 1 series in 1985 or 87.

I think the 8011 originally had a 25kmh gearbox, not a 30kmh ? not sure, but at least they didnt have a 35 or 40kmh box.

 

[brenten5]

My 8011 would be flat out doing 20kph without the tourqe amplifier

 

[chixnfix]

new info, sorry. just looked at tranny, on side with white paint, from salvage yard, i assume is the number 10111. i was told from 8011? on left rear case numbers cast in are; 80121 001 zetor 25 984. do these mean anything? or just casting #'s? i was really hoping for more speed, even if it means eating the 600 dollars i paid for this tranny and looking for another or just fixing the 3speed i have. thanks so much for the help

 

[corundal]

The 10111 was a turbo charged model in Australia. I don't want to be too pessimistic but a local 10145 needed a gearbox rebuild. The bill was $8000! The bill was as much the fault of the incompetent workshop as the tractor. Just be careful it is fault free before installing. The maximum speed in the 12045 book is 25.5 kph but I know there is a higher speed option listed somewhere.
Just found my Australian pamphlet for the big Zetors. Speed for the 16145 on 23.1/18/34 rears is 27.01 at 2200RPM. No optional diff ratio listed.

 

[sb]

hi . if your going to use the hole back end of the 8011 . the first 8011 had different oil filters and housing . the later should have the same as yours . am not sure if the newer housing fits the older backend . also the 8011 backend had no oil cooler . but am sure you could make yours fit . am trying to remember what else . dont worry your get it to work some how. if the 8011 had r34 rims you could use them back axle reduction gears and run your tractor on r38 . it will speed it up a bit . but your 4wd will be out of ratio..the 10111 is a 2 wd tractor . your have to check the gears are the in the drop box. its a nice project would like to be at it . have fun

 

[sb]

am after thinking the hole 4wd ratio could be out with that gearbox. your have to watch for that .

 

[chixnfix]

thats correct, the filter is different, it must be the old model gearbox. Mine has the 18/4-38R. I have the workshop manual , the parts manual and the operators manual. the workshop manual lists the speeds for each tire size for each tractor, i.e., the 8011 up to the 16245. my tractor is a 16145, manual is for a 16245, but it seems to be basically the same. The parts book lists the parts for the different ratio gearboxes but i havent figured it out yet. I'm going to look for a later gearbox, this one would work, but i dont want to put in since it has the smaller filter and also does'nt appear to ba a higher ratio. It should not affect the ratio of the front end since the power is taken after the gearbox. I think this is correct. Please dont hesitate to tell me if i am wrong on any of this as i seem to be wrong quite often

 

[mr_gav]

if your 16145 is a pre 91/92 which it must be other wise it would be a 162 45 ..then its more then likely to be a crash box ...is it a 4+4...with splitter or a 3+3 non splitter ?...either way a gear box has no bearing on the 4wd ratio ..regardless of what its out of ...the 4wd is powered off the back axle .....so if its just the gear box your changing then you don't need to worry ...but ..if its a old 8011 gear box you'll have a head ache fitting it different clutch shaft on 8011 and bolts round axle / diff different size ...and like some one said ..watch out for over torque on 1st and the splitter ...of the 8011 box and the 10111 box to in that case ...all of the 160 /161 ...did.nt have splitters for the reason they had wider cogs to take stress better .....

 

[Renze]

...all of the 160 /161 ...did.nt have splitters for the reason they had wider cogs to take stress better .....

First time i hear that... ??

 

[sb]

ya am wondering about that to . i had a 1224t with a torque multiplier . there seems to be a lot of torque multiplier parts aviable for 16045 and 16145 on the net.

 

[sb]

ya am wondering about that to . i had a 1224t with a torque multiplier . there seems to be a lot of torque multiplier parts aviable for 16045 and 16145 on the net.

 

[gav]

if your 16145 is a pre 91/92 which it must be other wise it would be a 162 45 ..then its more then likely to be a crash box ...is it a 4+4...with splitter or a 3+3 non splitter ?...either way a gear box has no bearing on the 4wd ratio ..regardless of what its out of ...the 4wd is powered off the back axle .....so if its just the gear box your changing then you don't need to worry ...but ..if its a old 8011 gear box you'll have a head ache fitting it different clutch shaft on 8011 and bolts round axle / diff different size ...and like some one said ..watch out for over torque on 1st and the splitter ...of the 8011 box and the 10111 box to in that case ...all of the 160 /161 ...did.nt have splitters for the reason they had wider cogs to take stress better .....

interesting post ??? 81 -161 zetors had syncro gears from 1986
looking in the old workshop parts manual 16045 did have a option of just a 8 speed box with no torque amp but 16145 had 12 forward with torque amp and your semi correct on the fact of they had wider gears on the 161 only it was found that a standard 16 speed box won't take the stress of heavy draft work mainly from teeth being ripped off drive gears but zetor also did a bit of trick by rebadging 14145's as 16145 by cranking pump up so there could be some 16145 about with 16 speed gearbox's these can be found by looking at engine numbers and running on 24 inch front wheels hope this answered your problem

 

[Renze]

The 16+16 16145''s were the 40kmh overdrive units. speeds 1-3 had the transfer ratios of 2-4 on a 4 cylinder, the 3rd being direct drive, where the new 4th was an overdrive.

They didnt just simply removed the 1st gear, they took out the 3rd gear and increased the layshaft speed so the gears of gear 1 and 2 would run 30% faster, providing the same output ratio as the original 2nd and 3rd gear, thereby decreasing the maximum torque on them also by 30%. Removing the splitter would reduce the stress by 25% or so, its a possibility to reduce the transmission stress too, but i''ve never seen 161''s other than 12 speed, or 16+16 overdrive.

Ford and Deere use the same trick, Ford in the TW series with overdrive 16+4 dual power, and Deere in the 4040 series quad range. The lightest two, 4030 and 4230 had an underdrive 2 stage powershift and small ratio final reductions. the 4430? and 4630 had an overdrive powershift and high reduction ratio final drives. That means it didnt have more friction than needed to transfer the power of the smaller models, preventing that the smallest models would feel too sluggish (thats the reason Case never put the 80hp Maxxum 5110 prototype into serial production, it was too sluggish, so they started off with a 90hp 5120)