news Found Czech info.... (Hot rumor !!)

treaney · Oct 25, 2004

Hi Renze,

I ran the Czech web site through http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran

Does this help ?

TomZ
Tom

hogi · Oct 25, 2004

Well, that 50kph sounds very interesting. I really hope that we could get it also to Forterra series. A lot of our customers have already now asked that 50kph transmission.

Lately there has been a lot of rumors concerning that zetors own 6cyl. engine. Who knows the truth? Although, there is no smoke without the fire... :-x

P.S I'm quite new member of this site but I have been working with zetors (and ursus ) since 1984...

gerlant · Oct 25, 2004

thel us more about your zetor 's

hogi · Oct 26, 2004

Nowadays we have these zetors in daily work:

-5245, year 1991
-10540, year 1995
-16245, year 1997

All of them were new when they came to us. 10540 will be sold in couple of months becaused we have placed order for new forterra 11441.

And this one is brand new:

-Proxima 8441.1, driven only 5 hours... It was our exhibition machine and I'm trying to sell it.

gerlant · Oct 26, 2004

hogi,
how much thit youre 10540 run,
and I like to now the price off the 10540, becourse i am looking for a tractor like that.

hogi · Oct 27, 2004

10540 has approximately only 1200 hours, the year of purchase is 1995.

The price is something near 16600 euros (VAT 0%).

gerlant · Oct 27, 2004

nice price for1200 hours, but 1995 and 1200 hours? (are there 10 000 hours missing) i can't amagin tho find a tractor like that here in holland, and if i do then there is somthing wrong.

hogi · Oct 28, 2004

No, there are not 10000h missing, that 1200h is everything and I can sign a document of that. There has not been any major problems with that tractor, we just have avarage sized farm without livestock or contracting. And we have also 4 other tractors in daily service. Thatswhy it is with so low-hours

Renze · Nov 10, 2004

I found somebody that can speak better Czech than me...

The hottest rumor:
Zetor will start production of 6 cylinder engines, as soon as the production has moved from the old Zbrojovka works (Brno Diesel) to the tractor plant in Lisen.

The next hottest rumor: The new range might have a transmission bought in from an external supplier !!!

Who might this be ? who is willing to sell conventional powershift transmissions to Zetor ???

THESE ARE RUMORS, dont tell everybody without saying that these are JUST rumors...

Guest · Nov 11, 2004

Maybe the brakes on the proxima are a reason why there is not a 50 km/h version

gw · Nov 11, 2004

Who said it would be 'a conventional transmission' perhaps it will be a true decent powershift with some long awaited electronics!

Renze · Nov 11, 2004

Electronics is a pain in the ass... Nobody really needs them, and all they do is making things more complicated. result: only a Zetor dealer can fix it with his laptop computer plugged in... the fact that a Zetor can be fixed by every mechanic, with no brand specific training, has allways been a strong point for Zetor.

Next to that, the other manufacturers already have saturated the market for electronics loaded tractors... Zetor fills the market for no-nonsense tractors.

crystalman · Nov 14, 2004

I agree with that! And using more bought in components would increase the price by a large amount so zetor would cease to be value for money.We already have enough "Bitsa" tractors on the market made out of identical bought in components!
Bitsa is an old biking term people like my dad used in the 50's.It means "Bitsa this and Bitsa that" When engines and frames were swapped around by modifiers.

hogi · Nov 14, 2004

I agree with Renze. Electronic is pain in the ass! Let's hope that zetors will not be equipped like UFOs...

Greetings from the Zetor factory. We visited it last week. A lot of development has happened since the "old times".

Renze · Nov 14, 2004

Hmmm i think most Zetor folks would agree about electronics being a pain in the ass... Why else do they buy a Zetor, eh ??

Anyways, HTC still owns the factory that builds transmissions for the ZTS tractors.... I dont have a clue if this is a real option...

If it had to be an outisde supplier, the Same transmissions cannot work without electronics, and: All tractors equipped with Same components have very low resale value: a Zetor 11641 (with SLH engine) is hard to sell and has little resale value, compared to a 10641. A Renault 175-94 with SLH 9 step powershift (the worst there is) has a lower resale value than an old Zetor 16245.

What's more: Agco/MF Dynashift: Agco already sued Claas for using the transmission in the former Renault tractors. i dont think they will sell...

NH: Price wise CNH is Zetor's biggest competitor. They will never sell their range command transmission (TM range) to someone else.

John Deere ?? No, i suppose not..
left: the ZF 4 step powershift, as used by Deutz in the Agrotron, Fendt in the 500 and 800 series, Valtra in the S series and Steyr/Case in the 9100/CS series.

Is there ANYthing left in the tractor market ??

If they would use the ZF transmission it will at least have a resale value comparable to the other Zetor models..

They say that the Forterra transmission, in it's current state, will take up to 140 hp... I suppose they should develop the 11441 into a 140 hp 4 cylinder tractor and forget all about a 6 cylinder Forterra... Then start a new range from 120 hp upwards, with six cylinder engines...

If they are going to develop anything by themself, i think a partial range powershift with no electronics, is what Zetor buyers need... If they need electronics and more bells and whistles, tehy will buy an MF or NH.... ???

markku · Nov 15, 2004

How about old Good Funki full power shift transmission? That would be something, no electricity..... Except JD would not like this

They own least part of the factory nowdays. There is Caterpillar too who makes powershift transmissions in 160 hp category. But there is missing PTO option

That should be after built via gearbox and it makes more costs.

I think they make a syncroniced gearbox like new Valtras and 3 stair powershift. What do you think folks? Least they have 3- stair powershift ready for Forterras and maybe heavier built version of that.... Or they doulbles the revs like Same do when they make heavier transmission. (Hope not)

Have you ever seen new Same transmission Exploded? It looks like my girlfriend ex Toyota corolla transmission: Nothing heavier than M12*150 -8.8 bolt!!!!

P.S. Corolla is ex. Grilfriend isnt......least yeat.....

gw · Nov 15, 2004

Well well. "zetors dont need electronics"!!! could you please explain the operation of the hydralic lift in the forterras? And ill tell you why its there>

, because its cheaper to put in a bosch system the manual conrtols!

All iwant is a power shuttle clutchless, blah blah. and a decent dash

KJ · Nov 15, 2004

There was also mention of larger Zetors at Techagro this year.

Who makes transmission for large Ursus models?
Could also be consideration for future models or is this to 'old' tech for a new line of tractors???

Renze · Nov 16, 2004

from techagro website:

"At present we have been preparing a powerful tractor of 160 hp which should replace our past production. I suppose that its series production should be launched in 2006," informed Goj on the Zetor novelties. In spite of certain difficulties Zetor has not stopped investing in the development, which has proven satisfactory."

I am told that the Forterra transmission has no room for a powershuttle clutch pack... And it needs further reinforcement to bring it to 160 hp.... I think it doesn't pay to invest more into this transmission.

GW, the ZF transmission can offer 4 sped powershift and powershuttle without the need of computers...

Yes the Bosch EHR 4 is cheaper than to develop a new mechanical system that senses the lower link arms.
Though the version Zetor uses, still doesn't need a laptop computer for adjustment.

gw · Nov 16, 2004

Hey, Im saying electronics not a (pardon the pun) 'super' computer. Computers and muck/moisture dont go together. But all i would like to see is some mods .Like getting rid of the chunky spool conrtols on the forterra . The ZF tranny sounds good. And i belive the introduction of some understandable electronics could potentially reduce the price, perhaps.???

Renze · Nov 16, 2004

Yes i can agree on that, the Forterra needs a better operation of the spool valves, the bowden cable controls look like they are just thrown in somewhere there...

A simple electric control, a switch and a relay operated valve, would be a good idea though... as long as i can see which wire goes to where, i can agree on using this electrics..

This is what ZF offers: i suppose the input torque on their heaviest one, is a bit low in relation to the mentioned power: Even an old 18345 gets to 835 Nm...

...I suppose the T 570 series of transmissions, are the ones from Steyr.

ZF products[/]

croc2 · Nov 16, 2004

Hi Guys,

Just thought i might put my thoughts on the table as well,

1st which would be more difficult to do 1 extra main gear or one extra t/m gear as one or the other would be great.

2nd, Get rid of these supid spool valve levers and give me nice console with nice levers that dont look like a AFTER THOUGHT.

3rd, Short out the paint work so it withstands a steam cleaner better and does not flake OFF.

4th, Heated rear mirrors and back window should be standard along with aircon or no cost options!!!

Apart from these grumbles i am very happy with my forterras, still nothing to report but the massey has been to the doctors this week as the front axle diff started banging when turning sharp when on the road, as some jobs we are doing means pulling up sharp ramps and turning on to roads when fully loaded. Does nothing for my tyres mind.

P.S GW whats up with the dash on them, mind you its a bit hard to see sometimes in bright sunlight, i have no complaints.

Renze, Dont want anymore electrics than now really apart from perhaps the above spool valves.

Renze · Nov 17, 2004

William,

1st which would be more difficult to do 1 extra main gear or one extra t/m gear as one or the other would be great.

what do you mean by t/m gear ??

The Polish built Crystal 230 (with ZF tranny and axles and Deutz engine, a license of the Deutz AT 235) is only 17.000 Euro cheaper than the DF 235. (DF AT 230 is 120.000 Euro)

Would the Deutz 1013 engine be so expensive, or the transmission ?

I think that Deere's powerquad and Deutz AT with the ZF 4 speed, and the MF dynashift transmissions are most popular in the market, nowdays.. The CVT didn't really catch on as expected...

fs · Nov 17, 2004

what zetor needs is to get tractors in the pipleline. in n. ameria it hard to find any on the lots. People are getting tired of the story, they are coming. Dealers need a good supply of tractors. If you can supply tractors, how about parts is needed.

Renze · Nov 17, 2004

Yes, i know about that... In North America, teh importer AmJawa sees its contract ending, and they are not getting a new contract...
HTC is taking out another middle man, this would enable them to sell Zetors at the same price level, to even up with the higher steel prices.
Off course an ending contract of a supplier doesn't motivate these people.... Anyways they'll be back soon.

About transmissions:

Deutz Agrotron 235 with ZF 4 speed and 7.1 liter Deutz BFM 1013 engine: 121.613 Euro
Crystal 230 (exactly the same, license built also with Deutz BFM 1013 engine): 104.343 euro
Renault/Claas Ares 926 (Deutz BFM 1013 engine

109.191
Though the Claas has an 18/8 full powershift. I believe from Funk ??
Case IH MX 230 Magnum: 105.200 euro.... Also full powershift.
i believe these full powershift transmissions have a better reputation than the ZF 4 speed, as the ZF had many startup problems...
However, the Funk is probably cheaper, though it cannot work without electronics... Next to that, a full powershift can be fun, but there is no NEED for it..

I guess Zetors best bet would be to invest in a 5 or 6 step powershift with powershuttle, combined with 4 main gears and an optional crawl gear... That could be offered cheap enough to be competitive, but has enough technology to run with the big dogs.

gw · Nov 17, 2004

About the dash. it is hard to see in sunlight so perhaps adjustable. and perhaps a digital read out of forward speed pto speed. which i didnt used to have. Not too silly electrics. Or an option at least.

croc2 · Nov 17, 2004

Renze,

What i ment to say was a powershift gear 4 rather than 3 steps.

Anyway what tractor company is really going to sell Zetor a powershift gearbox (none i think), so what zetor need to do is get their fingers out and design their own or just make a new version of what they have with 1 more step. If like you have said there is a 160hp 6 pot coming out in 2006 then they must have the money to sort the box out. I mean would you buy a 160hp tractor with the same box as whats in my forterras i dont think so!!!.

Has nobody else have an issue with paint work on their Zetors then, or am i the only one running new forterras here??

markku · Nov 18, 2004

Yes, problems with painting, but older Zetors. Least to 9540 models Zetors had bad painting (i dont have experience about newer models). Cabin frame is main problem.

Weard... ZTS has lots of better painting... Why? Both (cabin frames) are made in slovakian ???

Who knows are they made in same factory? If they are why the differns ???

Renze · Nov 21, 2004

enough speculations:

===Insiders told me, HTC is telling that Zetor (or the HTC organisation, other subsidiaries) have the know-how and the facilities to build market conform big tractors... but is afraid to invest in it, they dont know if it is going to pay...===

Well i agree with William, a 160 hp forterra with just 3 powershift steps is no good investment... In the Forterra range, they shouldn't invest at all, unless if it was a 120 and 135 hp 4 cyl based on the existing 11441. Those will be cheap enough to even up for the technologically poor transmission in this power range.

If they invest, they have to invest in a new unified range, that covers a wide power band, 130 to 200 hp or even wider... to spread cost over a big market segment. ???

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